996 vs. 997, but then which 997?
#61
Drifting
Some of us cut the paper filter during an oil change to inspect for any signs of IMS and/or any engine issues... you're looking for metal or plastic bits. Some will also send in their oil for analysis. If the bearing seals goes then clean oil may save you for a short time. Btw has anyone tried the LNE IMS Guardian? Also someone please point us to a definitive case of the new IMS causing this issue.
#63
Rennlist Member
The local Porsche dealer here (Champion) uses 5W-40, I think it's a Pennzoil product. They (and their Champion Motorsports division) recommend it for warmer climates like ours. Given that your climate in Austin is also warm, I'd think the same applies. I don't see how an authorized Porsche dealer could promote violating Porsche's specifications, so I have to believe Porsche doesn't forbid anything but Mobil One 0-40, even if they have some contractual deal to promote it.
My indie, a race-engine-building shop, carries Mobil One, but it's also 5W-40, not 0W-40. They also carry some German oil they use for racing.
My indie, a race-engine-building shop, carries Mobil One, but it's also 5W-40, not 0W-40. They also carry some German oil they use for racing.
#64
2008 997C4S IMS question
I currently own a 1991 C2 Cabriolet and I am considering purchasing a 2008 C4S. I'm aware that 996/997's have an 'isssue' with RMS and IMS bearing failures. From all I've read I can't really tell if the IMS/RMS bearing problem is specific to certain model years. Can anyone shed light on this?
Specifically, I want to know if IMS failure is a known/chronic problem with the 2008 C4S model year.
Any reply/advice would be much appreciated
Specifically, I want to know if IMS failure is a known/chronic problem with the 2008 C4S model year.
Any reply/advice would be much appreciated
#65
Late MY-05 987
I have a late MY-05 987 Boxster S with a M-97 motor. It's IMS bearing has failed at 40k miles. I think we'll find that this beefier IMS band aid solution was a flawed design as well. It was short lived for a reason. A lot of the failures of these more recent cars have been masked by repair solutions under warranty. As these cars fall out of warranty, the IMS problems for this series will surface as well.
#66
Rennlist Member
If non 911 owners would listen to some of you, nobody would every buy a 997...
It's hard to justify paying more for a 07-08 997, if its the same car as the 05-06. The DFI 09 and newer, you could make a case, but the premium for a 997.2 over a 05-06 997.1 is large, without a huge performance gain, excluding the PDK.
The 05 engine problems are very very small, and just about any make or model has something that's come up. Read the TSB's on Honda's , MB's, Toyota's ect.
If you have worries, buy a warranty.
It's hard to justify paying more for a 07-08 997, if its the same car as the 05-06. The DFI 09 and newer, you could make a case, but the premium for a 997.2 over a 05-06 997.1 is large, without a huge performance gain, excluding the PDK.
The 05 engine problems are very very small, and just about any make or model has something that's come up. Read the TSB's on Honda's , MB's, Toyota's ect.
If you have worries, buy a warranty.
#67
Rennlist Member
Addict,
I have a 2002 996 and read all about the IMS issue. My 996 does not leak a drop of oil and it has a magnitized oil plug in it which is checked once a year to see if any metal filings from the IMS shows up. I was thinking of moving up to a 997, perhaps a '06, '07 or '08. Would I have the same IMS issue with those non-turbo engines?
Your thoughts please?
From a glider pilot in Ohio
I have a 2002 996 and read all about the IMS issue. My 996 does not leak a drop of oil and it has a magnitized oil plug in it which is checked once a year to see if any metal filings from the IMS shows up. I was thinking of moving up to a 997, perhaps a '06, '07 or '08. Would I have the same IMS issue with those non-turbo engines?
Your thoughts please?
From a glider pilot in Ohio
#68
Rennlist Member
Addict,
I have a 2002 996 and read all about the IMS issue. My 996 does not leak a drop of oil and it has a magnitized oil plug in it which is checked once a year to see if any metal filings from the IMS shows up. I was thinking of moving up to a 997, perhaps a '06, '07 or '08. Would I have the same IMS issue with those non-turbo engines?
Your thoughts please?
From a glider pilot in Ohio
I have a 2002 996 and read all about the IMS issue. My 996 does not leak a drop of oil and it has a magnitized oil plug in it which is checked once a year to see if any metal filings from the IMS shows up. I was thinking of moving up to a 997, perhaps a '06, '07 or '08. Would I have the same IMS issue with those non-turbo engines?
Your thoughts please?
From a glider pilot in Ohio
The short answer is this: For 997s the IMS setup changed over from the "old" design to the "new" design around Feb 2005. This means that later-build MY05 cars have the new design, as do all 06, 07 and 08 cars.
We've heard of multiple failures fromt the "old" design IMS bearings. I haven't heard of any proven "new" bearing failures. The "new" design is supposed to be much more resilient.
So technically, you'll still have a possible IMS issue in an 06, 07, or 08 engine, since the IMS and its bearings still exist in the engine, but so far this board has not seen a proven failure from the "new" design.
#69
Rennlist Member
I have a late MY-05 987 Boxster S with a M-97 motor. It's IMS bearing has failed at 40k miles. I think we'll find that this beefier IMS band aid solution was a flawed design as well. It was short lived for a reason. A lot of the failures of these more recent cars have been masked by repair solutions under warranty. As these cars fall out of warranty, the IMS problems for this series will surface as well.
Are you sure you have the "new" design IMS? How do you know? If you did, in fact, have the new design, you will represent the first failure of that bearing setup that we've heard of here on the board. I'm not saying you're lyin' - I just want to make sure!
Let us know...
#70
guys, I appreciate all the wisdom.
I have purchased a 05 997 with an m97 motor --car build date 2/05--from my research, it was built 600 engines BEFORE the beefier ims upgrade may have gone into effect.
Going to take it in for a ppi tomorrow.
I got a good deal and love the car.
But I have the ability to return the car by Thursday and get my money back--on general principles I could, and just wait for another deal, and get an 06 or 07. For that matter, could also plunk down some more money to just be safe (997.2?)
I just want to be able to sleep at night and won't be for the next couple nights until I figure out what I should do.
Thanks in advance for any advise. It's do or die decision time for me!
I have purchased a 05 997 with an m97 motor --car build date 2/05--from my research, it was built 600 engines BEFORE the beefier ims upgrade may have gone into effect.
Going to take it in for a ppi tomorrow.
I got a good deal and love the car.
But I have the ability to return the car by Thursday and get my money back--on general principles I could, and just wait for another deal, and get an 06 or 07. For that matter, could also plunk down some more money to just be safe (997.2?)
I just want to be able to sleep at night and won't be for the next couple nights until I figure out what I should do.
Thanks in advance for any advise. It's do or die decision time for me!
To answer your question on whether you should buy this car, I think the answer is yes, as long as you check out or replace the IMS bearing as a condition of purchase. Ask to have the oil changed and oil filter inspected for metal shavings -or- to split the cost of installing a LN Enginerring IMS bearing. This way you will not need to worry if the IMS is on the verge of going out.
But buy the car knowing that when you sell the car, you will have the perceived IMS issue with a few buyers, that should be solved with showing you had the IMS bearing replaced. In truth the failure rate appears so low, that with the IMS bearing upgrade you will be in great shape with this car.
There does not seem to be a definitive percentage as to what the IMS failure rate on early '05 models is, but it is considered very low. Some early '05 owners have stated on the boards that because it is so low they are not concerned, but if it was me, I would have it changed for the peace of mind. And you will have a wonderful car.
I don't know if the IMS bearing upgrade is a onetime fix, how long the LN bearing holds a warrantee or if it needs to be subsequently replaced and checked overtime.
As far as the newer 997.1 models with the larger IMS bearings, there have been zero documented IMS failures to date and there are cars out there with well over 100,000 miles on them. I hope it's not a problem that will be slow to turn up and believe we all are watching for this on the boards pretty intently. Porsche's decision to a replace a bearing that had a rare propensity to failure with a bearing that could not be serviced without completely tearing down the engine was either based on arrogance or a very strong belief that the bearing would well out live the life of the vehicle. The zero occurrence rate so far is the strongest indicator that it was a true fix, beyond any unsubstantiated opinions.
*Both boards have threads where owners can report if they have had an IMS failure. I think this is a great way to track the issue because I would suspect the vast majority of those who have their engines shredded because of the IMS would Google for an idea of what has happened and find the boards. An uninteneded result of this query is that instead of only those who have experienced a failure posting, every Tom, Dick and Harry seem to want to post that they have not had any problems, so the threads have a great volume of unneeded responses and are hard to read. But so far there have been zero posts of a larger IMS bearing failure.
Did you buy the car?
Last edited by DoninDen; 03-31-2013 at 07:40 PM.
#71
Nordschleife Master
I currently own a 1991 C2 Cabriolet and I am considering purchasing a 2008 C4S. I'm aware that 996/997's have an 'isssue' with RMS and IMS bearing failures. From all I've read I can't really tell if the IMS/RMS bearing problem is specific to certain model years. Can anyone shed light on this?
Specifically, I want to know if IMS failure is a known/chronic problem with the 2008 C4S model year.
Any reply/advice would be much appreciated
Specifically, I want to know if IMS failure is a known/chronic problem with the 2008 C4S model year.
Any reply/advice would be much appreciated