Jastx

I am interested in two '07 997s. One is a C2S, more or less standard equipped with standard PASM but no sport chrono. The other is a C2 with both PASM and sport chrono, plus some other goodies and a color I really like. About the same price and miles.

I'm leaning towards the better equipped C2. I would use the car for my daily driver -- little to no track -- and like the combination of PASM and sport chrono. However... I would like an S because it's the S and I like Big Reds. On the other hand I want my S with both PASM AND Sport Chrono. Without it, I think the S is missing something. I haven't seen any S's with both in this price range.

What is your opinion? Don't base it on track capabilities please. Thanks!

Nugget

Sport Chrono is worthless -- don't let its presence or absence sway your decision at all. Both cars have PASM (one of the big upsell features of the S) to that's a wash. It comes down to the power difference (noticeable, but not dramatic), xenon headlamps in the S (I like them) and the larger brakes (makes no difference on the street). I can confidently say that the S is not missing anything because it lacks Sport Chrono. The Sport Chrono doesn't make the car go any faster, brake any quicker, or turn any sharper.

Bottom line, though, there are way more than just those two cars on the market. Why not keep looking a little bit longer and finding one that's a closer fit to what you want? It's a buyer's market these days. There's no reason to settle, even when buying used.

alexb76

PASM is super nice to have, you probably won't turn it to Sport mode if you don't track. BUT, PASM is always on, changing automatically stiffer/softer. It is more comfortable than standard suspension in comfort mode and a stiffer in sport mode.

Sports Chrono on the other hand is not a biggie... I LOVE the timer on the dash, and have used it for tracking and timing myself. However, I find the Sports mode too jumpy and even for tracking I don't use it much... so consider it more of a feature than performance upgrade.

Power/brakes of "S" is totally up to you, for me it was very important as I track... for you it may not be a big deal. Also, colour/wheels/interior, etc... is very very personal...

So, at the end, get the car that APPEALS TO YOU the most. You probably won't regret having one feature over the other, but if you don't love the colour of your car, it will totally bug you everytime you drive it.

Good luck! Either case, 911 is a 911!!! You will LOVE IT [I'm a first timer too].

Fahrer

My 2008 has sport chron. It is not something I would have ordered but was on the car that I purchased ( I would not have ordered the BOSE or the Nav either). I do not use ithe SC. It does offer, however, the ability to change some settings for the car. I would concentrate on the condition of the cars being considered, most of all.

Good luck!

Jastx

Thanks everyone. Alex, the S I'm considering is the same color as yours. The non-S is slate grey. The greys are my favorites, especially slate.

I agree PASM is a must have. Sounds like sport chrono should not be a concern, especially for non-track use.

Now my big question is: Is there an overriding reason to get an S over a Carrera for the mostly-near-the-legal-speed-limit use for which I will use it. Are they both happy at street speeds? Is low end torque better in one than the other? I'm trying land a nice car with PASM, 2006 model or newer, less than 35k miles for under $50k. Both of my alternatives meet those criteria, and there aren't many I could find that do. The S may be the one that gets more attention when I sell.

I have also been looking at a couple of 40th Anniversary cars. They're great with X51 power pack, sports suspension, full leather, special features. I was convinced that was what I wanted but I have found a couple of nice 2006 997s close the same price range as the low mile 40th cars. The 997 platform is such an advance, I'm considering these cars with less options than the 40th but better ride, dynamics, and performance. The main point that hit me was a review that said the 996 transmit a lot of rear suspension road noise into the cabin and the 997s do not. One reason I'm changing cars (non-Pcar now) is road noise on grainy highways. I want a little more refinement.

This is not my first P-car (see my signature for two of four) but my first water pumper. Unlike with my previous Porsches, I'm wanting the best Porsche for driving every day.

Thanks again for your experienced opinions. Very helpful.

RonCT

Honestly, get the S and forget about Sport Chrono. Hotly debated here at the forum, but it really is a "do nothing" stop watch that sits on the dash. With the S it's not just the Big Reds, it's the engine and some other things too (ie: Xenons, 19s, etc.). Granted, the C2 might have all of the S options except the Reds, but there's still a perception difference betwen C2 and C2S that might come into play when you sell the car.

Betternotbigger

+1 to that. Second hand it's a no brainer. The 997 gen 1 S is a significantly better car than the standard 2 and will be easier to move on when the time comes.

There is only one "but". The 2 on 18s (with PASM) is more comfortable and quieter than the S on 19s, both important factors for you. Nothing to do with the different models - it's all about the wheels.

So, you have to ask yourself whether comfort and refinement rate above performance!!

Bruce R

here is my $0.02 worth.
I have the Sport Chrono on my PASM equipped '06 C2 (purchase in Sept. '09) and I would not have paid more than $100 for it, really it's a nice to have, but that's about it.
Regarding the S vs non S decision, well I paid more than $50k for a '06 C2 (5 800 miles), this year, so for sure I could have got a very nice S for that money but the unique combination and build of my car was the clincher for sure. I have every S option but the 3.8l and big reds!

PS I love the PASM.

At Law

I did the same thing.
When I was looking for a 997, I was most concerned with the mileage,
condition, previous ownership. I wanted as close to a perfect 997
as possible.
I certainly would have purchased an "S" had I found one with the
right specs, however, my '06 C2 was loaded with all the options
I wanted (including the must have PASM) and only had 5,000 miles
when I bought it. The car was/is showroom condition.

I, too, most likely paid as much for my C2 as many "S" models.
However, this C2 was exactly what I was looking for.

Good luck and enjoy the hunt.

alexb76

My 911 is a daily drive too, although I don't drive it as much as some since I walk to work, and I drive it for shopping, weekends, etc...

I just went from 19s summer tires to 18s winter tires, and I can tell you that if you are mostly concerned about road noise, comfort on long highway trips, then you MUST go with 18s (better for pot holes too).

You also need to look at milage, condition, warranty, etc... as well. Overall, if you got two cars, exact same condition, milage, options, colour choice, at the same price, getting the "S" is no brainer.

As I just said, it must appeal to you most, if both do, get the car that's best maintained, looks the best, is best value, pop some 18s on and enjoy as daily drive.

RonCT

To be honest with you, with my 2007 C2S I wish it didn't have PASM. Gen 1 PASM wasn't that great, though Gen 2 on the 09+ is much better. If I had my choice on a 997.1, I'd get the Non-PASM and get after market coil overs to get a better suspension and ride height. I'd also stick with 18s as after many years I continue to be convinced it's the superior format (discussed at length here at the forum).

So basically, I wouldn't sweat it if the car is much less $ and has the stock suspension vs. a lot more money and PASM (ie: H&R coilovers for 997.1 Non-PASM are about $2100 at Vivid).

alexb76

Ron, what don't you like about PASM? It's not great for track or street? Now low enough? Isn't PASM actually more comfortable than stock suspension (what OP wanted)?

Btw, I've NEVER been on an aftermarket suspension that was actually more comfortable while providing as good of a handling. They are mostly one-dimensionally designed (ride hight, firmer, etc...).

RonCT

Perhaps I'm the wrong guy to ask. But I found 997.1 base suspension superior to PASM. It was not "electronic", it was set up and you had confidence the rules wouldn't change on you in mid turn like PASM can do. On the track, PASM often didn't know what to do. It's always trying to change the dampening rates to adjust to the situation at hand. Alternatively, the spring rate is fixed. I tried Damptronics but found them not to be any better - same "electronics" trying to think.

With the 997.2 they worked out the kinks and now it's a much better system. I am so confident with the 997.2 Sport PASM that I'm leaving it totally stock with the stock sways.

As to aftermarket suspension, there are all sorts you can try and many are more comfortable than stock. It all depends on how you set them up - spring rate, dampening rate, etc. If you want a street softness, no problem. Want hard-core race, also no problem. At least with coilovers you can set the ride height where you want it. I think when I tried the Damptronics on my 07, we went about 3/4" lower than PASM was. That felt just right and a side benefit is if you use coil overs and lower say 1" from a C2 height or 3/4 from a C2S, then you can also get more negative camber out of your alignment to reduce understeer and sharpen the steering response.

alexb76

Ok, got it. However, I think PASM would be beneficial for OP daily drive.

Btw, what's different in PASM2? Got a link?

RonCT

PASM Gen 2 is just the latest, greatest PASM. Years more of R&D and experience with Gen 1 went into Gen 2. Written about in the car magazines, discussed at length online. No specific links.

PASM isn't any better or worse for a daily driver if there's a coilover suspension that's "better" on the street. Really, PASM 1 is fine for the street and light track. The point I was making is to not spend thousands more to just get PASM in a car when the alternative is a true coil over suspension where you can set the spring and dampening rates (for street say) and lower the car properly (vs. using lowering springs that compress the shocks too much).