The Cayman is no 911
Serious experts have made that claim. Yes, HP is a big factor. Besides HP, 911 is also superior in prestige.
08-28-2009, 02:18 PM
#48
Nordschleife Master
I test drove a 987.2 pdk Cayman S at the track. I loved it. It felt fast and was very light and nimble. The 997.2 C4S I drove felt very planted but didn't feel nimble at all and the extra hp wasn't noticeable to me. They didn't have a 997S available to test drive. So I can't say anything about it.
08-29-2009, 09:39 PM
#49
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I hate to bash the Cayman/Boxster naysayers here but the 911/Boxster/Cayman share a LOT of parts. Literally. You say oh like what?
*basic engine design (including lots of parts)
*transmissions
*suspension bits
*electronics
*center console
*center stack
*pieces of the door panels
*external mirrors
*brakes
*rims
*RMS leaks
*IMS engine failures
On and on. You get the the general idea but these cars share a lot of parts. As someone else mentioned there is roughly a 50% increase in price between the cars. Yes the 911's interior is a little nicer than the Cayman/Boxsters but I wouldnt say its 50% nicer. The car is not 50% nicer in price. Also from what I see the 911's take a huge beating in depreciation as well.
The bottom line is that the 911 is the iconic Porsche and when you say Porsche thats what people automatically think of. But that being said a mid-engined car has superior physics because its balanced. If a Boxster/Cayman had the same motor as the 911 I would watch out. There is no way a 911 would whip a Boxster/Cayman on the track.
Its all about what you like though. If you got the means and like the 911 than go for it. If you want the Boxster/Cayman than buy that. Do what works for you.
*basic engine design (including lots of parts)
*transmissions
*suspension bits
*electronics
*center console
*center stack
*pieces of the door panels
*external mirrors
*brakes
*rims
*RMS leaks
*IMS engine failures
On and on. You get the the general idea but these cars share a lot of parts. As someone else mentioned there is roughly a 50% increase in price between the cars. Yes the 911's interior is a little nicer than the Cayman/Boxsters but I wouldnt say its 50% nicer. The car is not 50% nicer in price. Also from what I see the 911's take a huge beating in depreciation as well.
The bottom line is that the 911 is the iconic Porsche and when you say Porsche thats what people automatically think of. But that being said a mid-engined car has superior physics because its balanced. If a Boxster/Cayman had the same motor as the 911 I would watch out. There is no way a 911 would whip a Boxster/Cayman on the track.
Its all about what you like though. If you got the means and like the 911 than go for it. If you want the Boxster/Cayman than buy that. Do what works for you.
08-29-2009, 09:56 PM
#50
It sounds like you're starting to see the difference between the 911 and other cars. Neither right nor wrong, just very different. If you master the 911, the S2K will never satisfy you again. : ) And there's no "law" against an abrupt turn-in with the weight forward to "chuck" the 911 into a turn and get the abrupt rotation required to make a tight radius in a 3000lb+ car on hot, sticky tires. Try a lot more pressure in the rears to compensate for the soggy rear sway -- I was running 44 hot in a C4S Cab just to be sure the rear would be easy to manage with the throttle and that was on Laguna Seca where some apex speeds were 80 mph. Imagine the excess stick you've got in the rear of the 911 around an autocross. And for me, PSM didn't murmur unless I'd already made a gross mistake (transitioned into excessive oversteer without power on.)
I'd encourage you to not give up on the 911 -- developing the skills to control the 911 is a rewarding path (and I'm not suggesting I'm all that far down that path ... but I'm enjoying the journey.)
I'd encourage you to not give up on the 911 -- developing the skills to control the 911 is a rewarding path (and I'm not suggesting I'm all that far down that path ... but I'm enjoying the journey.)
Interesting point on the PSM not intruding - on a pretty tight 60ish second auto-x course turning PSM off shaved roughly two seconds off my times.
It was a practice event so we got 20ish runs so it was kind of fun to experiment.
08-30-2009, 12:27 AM
#52
I was running lower pressures to maximize grip but perhaps not handling. Will try the higher pressures in the rear.
Interesting point on the PSM not intruding - on a pretty tight 60ish second auto-x course turning PSM off shaved roughly two seconds off my times.
It was a practice event so we got 20ish runs so it was kind of fun to experiment.
Interesting point on the PSM not intruding - on a pretty tight 60ish second auto-x course turning PSM off shaved roughly two seconds off my times.
It was a practice event so we got 20ish runs so it was kind of fun to experiment.
08-30-2009, 01:41 AM
#53
GT3 player par excellence
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I really should commit to learn to drive this thing faster but my S2000 is set up so beautifully that I really prefer it's handling characteristics.
Lots 'o camber, stiff coilovers for such a light car 10k/10k, sticky wide tires and 50/50 weight distribution.
I'm with you on the R888s. Not nearly as sticky as the V710s and noisy as all get out on the street. They do take the heat pretty well though.
I can trail brake the S2000 very late, rotate the car and nail the gas pretty early. If I try that in the C2S - it'll push unless I do something crazy to get the tail out like a quick lift off the throttle...
Lots 'o camber, stiff coilovers for such a light car 10k/10k, sticky wide tires and 50/50 weight distribution.
I'm with you on the R888s. Not nearly as sticky as the V710s and noisy as all get out on the street. They do take the heat pretty well though.
I can trail brake the S2000 very late, rotate the car and nail the gas pretty early. If I try that in the C2S - it'll push unless I do something crazy to get the tail out like a quick lift off the throttle...
08-30-2009, 02:19 AM
#54
The 911 can get on the power early because it has to get on the power early, or you're going backwards into the scenery ... : )
08-30-2009, 04:23 AM
#55
Burning Brakes
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08-30-2009, 11:19 AM
#56
...from the Cayman S discussion group.
The cover story for the October issue of Motor Trend is a comparison of 10 high performance cars including cars like the Corvette ZR1, Audi R8, and Shelby GT500.
"The winner will be a car that delivers a balance of useable performance, accessible handling, and driver-friendly design; a vehicle with a multidimensional personality that will delight and reward the enthusiast driver on any road at any time, regardless of weather and traffic conditions."
The winner? The Cayman S!!!
(They didn't have the 911 in the "test")
The cover story for the October issue of Motor Trend is a comparison of 10 high performance cars including cars like the Corvette ZR1, Audi R8, and Shelby GT500.
"The winner will be a car that delivers a balance of useable performance, accessible handling, and driver-friendly design; a vehicle with a multidimensional personality that will delight and reward the enthusiast driver on any road at any time, regardless of weather and traffic conditions."
The winner? The Cayman S!!!
(They didn't have the 911 in the "test")
08-30-2009, 11:27 AM
#57
not only were the missing the 911S, but the test put the 135 in, instead of an M3. Motor trend goofed on that one. Also, they are using this new format to replace the last 3 years where they did a nicer "best handling car" test. The data is so cramped, that it is difficult to compare one car to the other. You can only see what the "average" is. MT also did a comparo a few years ago where they compared the caymanS to the Base 911. It seemed like a pretty good test. They also compared the 911S to the Z06 and Aston.
Last edited by docjohnM; 08-30-2009 at 11:28 AM. Reason: edited for spelling
08-30-2009, 06:55 PM
#59
Bought a Cayman S after a couple of M3s. The Cayman felt anemic. After a software update, throttle body and exhaust the car pulled decently. Was a reasonably easy car to drive fast. Well behaved as long as you didnt try to chuck it around. Although if you made a mistake it was very forgiving.
Whenever I sat in a 911, it reminded me of my E46M3. Felt like it was put together better and it was of better quality. While the cayman has a beautiful shifter (very very smooth - one of the best I have ever used) the car over all felt a bit cheapish.
I moved into a 911. Havent hit the track much (seems I can find brake pads that fit) and dont want to pull back because street pads probably arent enough for spirited track days.
So Im still waiting to get to learn the 911.
As the season here ends, it will be till next May before I can get out again - hope they have pagids or Hawks etc by that time.
Whenever I sat in a 911, it reminded me of my E46M3. Felt like it was put together better and it was of better quality. While the cayman has a beautiful shifter (very very smooth - one of the best I have ever used) the car over all felt a bit cheapish.
I moved into a 911. Havent hit the track much (seems I can find brake pads that fit) and dont want to pull back because street pads probably arent enough for spirited track days.
So Im still waiting to get to learn the 911.
As the season here ends, it will be till next May before I can get out again - hope they have pagids or Hawks etc by that time.
08-31-2009, 12:56 AM
#60
Banned
