docjackson1

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let me first say-i have a 997tt, but i have owned at least 12 different porsches. i do not drive my car on the track-i use it to take me to work mostly, and to drive for pleasure a couple extra times a week, but my turbo is my daily driver. i have also owned about 3 different c4s models (a 1989 (first c4 made), a 2001 996 c4 and a 2006 c4s 997 launch car. in my opinion, they are making the c4s model drive more and more like a c2s, as far as it's driving quality. now that the 997.2 c4s model is out, with and without pdk, in my opinion, you cannot do better, if you live in an area where there is snow or slippery driving conditions, than buying a c4s, getting some winter tires for the cold season, and driving that baby day in and day out. now that the car has almost 400hp, availability of a pdk, and porsche wide backside and porsche reliability, in my opinion, it is almost the perfect personal sports car. you can probably do no better than buying a c4s, and now with the great deals available.....well, enough said. the obvious question-why didn't i buy one instead of a turbo? good question-i kind of like the turbo acceleration, but if i had a bit more common sense, i would have also bought a c4s. i do put 4 snows on my turbo and drive it all winter. but, i still feel that if you can get 10-12 grand off a new 997.2 c4s, you have a car that will get you to work, to your ski vacation, to the track, and let you do it
all in style-just my opinion.

Targa Tim

Good comment.

My brother has a 997C4S that I have driven. I find that it drives very similar to my C2S. I find that its steering remains very good, and I do not feel the weight difference.

Having said that, 4WD and winter tires do not guarantee all weather capability. In heavy snow fall countries, and in areas with side streets that nobody will clear the snow, I found that sport car or sedan with low ground clearance will still get stuck.

So my solution to the above, a club coupe for summer and track use, and a Cayenne turbo for everything else.

Chris from Cali

Doc - very interesting observation. I've been tormenting myself about which Porsche to get next. I originally was going to order a Turbo, but after driving a new C2S, I didn't see the need for the extra power (or extra $40K). Then I considered a C4S to consolidate (i.e. get rid of the RS4 AND Cayman), but I love my RS4 to death. I still might end up going the C4S route if I only want one car. Otherwise I might get a C2S or a GT3 and keep the RS4...

sclemmons

I am enjoying mine. Bought right here and it is holding its value better than some of my other asset classes.

dertub

Beautiful car, too much weight.... you will buy tires soon.

cello

Doc - you are right, a great all around performer.

The only thing that would make it a 'perfect' all weather, all use car is a glass roof

GreggT

Good comments .... of course it's not perfect for all but ... it is great for some.

We got over a hundred inches here last year ..... but very rarely did ground clearance make me drive a different car than the Pcar.
The C4 cab with hardtop and winter fitments is a blast ..... I joke it's the my best off-season practice for summer autocross. I leave SUVs all all behind. I run narrower than Porsche spec fitments and she goes in anything.
Weight? ..... I can't tell, but others can probably judge this better. I have been driving and tracking Pcars for about 20 years
I started driving C4s in the winter with the 993 ..... the 996Turbo, and the 02 C4 cab. The 09 C4s Cab should be here shortly.
I do still recomend the stick for a winter driver. Driving on some ice last weekend and I firmly believe that being able to push that clutch in and momentarily disingage your drivetrain, is a luxury that can save you from the ditch now and then

All-wheel on the track? .... I'm a believer ... but that's another story.
I agree with you Doc ... great cars.

Edgy01

One area that never seems to get any discussion here on the Rennlist is the significant design changes that the C4S has undergone since the start of the 997 series of 911. Originally, the 997 Carrera 4S was equipped with the much simpler 4WD design that they moved to with the 993 and 996, after having a difficult time with hte 964 version. The 964 version (electronic) was tailored after the 959. But extremely expensive maintenance costs dictated that they turn back to the much simpler system for 4WD that is seen in some other cars like the Vanagon Synchro,--with the silicon filled tube which measures a temperature change (due to tire slippage) and then adjusts the power split accordingly. For many years Porsche kept that simplistic (and much cheaper) design, until they finally have gone back to the much more sophisticated 959 design in the 997.2 Carrera 4S. They began to revert back to this design in the 997 TT. Apparently reliability is considered a lot higher than it was when seen in the 964 Carrera 4.

What you have today in the 997.2 Carrera 4S is essentially a significantly less expensive version of the 959 capabilities. These are highly sophisticated and I hope that their reliability continues to improve.

unclejosh

Re. C4S - I am a '07 C4S owner. It is my daily driver and has seen a few AX and 2 track days - I would do more events, if I had more time and $$....The car has 26500 miles thus far and has been flawless....

Comparison: I have driven a 997 GT3, a 997 C2, a 997 C2S, a 997 C4S, a 997.2 C2 PDK, and a 997.2 C4S PDK.

The C4S differs from a C2 in that you can stuff the car into corners, with controlled aggression, and the *** end won't swap around like a C2 or a GT3. Driven with a firm hand, the car will drift controllably, and you can square off corners. Much of this is doable in a C2, but with less margin for error. If you are a skilled driver, then a C2 might be more rewarding perhaps..... IMHO, the C2 997 sticks well, but is less grippy and and has a flighty front end feel in comparison.... The C4S is like velcro. The 997.2 are magnificent cars, but my one comment would be that the C4S 997.2 has a slightly numb feel compared to the C4S 997.1.

I don't drive in the snow, but do enjoy the extra grip the C4S offers in the rain slick NorCal Canyons.......

Interesting thread......and, oh yes, the C4S looks incredable from the rear !

Le Chef

I never understand statements like this. Regardless of whether you have S/C or not "Please Save Me" will intervene before you can swap ends (with S/C on sport you get more latitude). You have to have done something pretty stupid for that to happen.

You can feel and hear PSM working and see the light flashing on the display to let you know you are screwing it up. More than likely you got the corner wrong rather than reaching the car's real limits.

And even if you have PSM completely off it will still save you as by now you're "Oh SH*T!" panic braking on the grass and PSM very kindly switches itself back on for you.

unclejosh

Le Chef,

sorry the statement that caused you angst or inability to understand.

I am just a novice and make mistakes when I drive, and am quite familiar with, and grateful for PSM intervention at times......

Happy Driving

UJ

Moderato

What would you attribute this to?

Edgy01

Originally Posted by unclejosh View Post
The 997.2 are magnificent cars, but my one comment would be that the C4S 997.2 has a slightly numb feel compared to the C4S 997.1.


The latest 997.2 C4S AWD system is entirely different from the viscous clutch design of the 997.1 C4S.

_Nathan

My C2S has never seen rain, much less snow. Some day before the warranty expires I'll have to try out the windshield wipers just to make sure they actually work. I've never driven a C4 but I can't imagine ever needing any more cornering ability than my C2S. So I guess the C2S is the perfect Porsche for me.

Moderato

Yeah that's why I was asking, I thought the new AWD system was supposed to be a huge improvement. Even more RWD esque then the previous system but unclejosh said he found it to be numb. I wasn't expecting that?????