engine reliability of 997's
10-01-2011, 09:13 AM
#61
7 out of 40. This is not a scientific or statistically significant survey. It is a very limited observation.
Are those cars / owners representative of the cars out there? How many of those cars were tracked and how often? How were they maintained? How many were modified? If so, what modifications?
I am sure the risk is there for all of these cars, whether IMS, chain tensioners, failed rod bolts or scored cylinders. I would thing that the with all of these defects, MOST 996/986 car engines would have exploded or self-destructed by now. Also, I have got to believe that cylinder scoring is worse with air-cooled engines.
Are those cars / owners representative of the cars out there? How many of those cars were tracked and how often? How were they maintained? How many were modified? If so, what modifications?
I am sure the risk is there for all of these cars, whether IMS, chain tensioners, failed rod bolts or scored cylinders. I would thing that the with all of these defects, MOST 996/986 car engines would have exploded or self-destructed by now. Also, I have got to believe that cylinder scoring is worse with air-cooled engines.
10-01-2011, 09:59 AM
#62
Rennlist Member
7 out of 40. This is not a scientific or statistically significant survey. It is a very limited observation.
Are those cars / owners representative of the cars out there? How many of those cars were tracked and how often? How were they maintained? How many were modified? If so, what modifications?
I am sure the risk is there for all of these cars, whether IMS, chain tensioners, failed rod bolts or scored cylinders. I would thing that the with all of these defects, MOST 996/986 car engines would have exploded or self-destructed by now. Also, I have got to believe that cylinder scoring is worse with air-cooled engines.
Are those cars / owners representative of the cars out there? How many of those cars were tracked and how often? How were they maintained? How many were modified? If so, what modifications?
I am sure the risk is there for all of these cars, whether IMS, chain tensioners, failed rod bolts or scored cylinders. I would thing that the with all of these defects, MOST 996/986 car engines would have exploded or self-destructed by now. Also, I have got to believe that cylinder scoring is worse with air-cooled engines.
10-01-2011, 10:42 AM
#63
Yeah, I know. I have a 535 with the HPFP and fuel injector issue. Although not disasterous, it is a PITA.
10-01-2011, 12:00 PM
#64
Yesterday, I was at one of the two local Porsche dealerships in my area and asked my newphew who is the service manager for Porsche if he's had any flat six equipped cars with IMS issues lately. His answer was that he has heard of the issue, but has never taken in a car with any IMS issue. They do a good amount of service work on Porsche that is non warranty work and on aging flat six cars.
This summer I asked my other local dealership's service advisor who has been there for at least 15 years the same question. They had one 986 Boxster recently with a completely failed motor due to the IMS bearing issue and years ago they had a few 1999's with the D-Chunk issue (cylinder sleeve separated from block) when those were brand new cars. So, one IMS issue in 15 years... However, I have no idea how that car was driven or serviced.
I bought a 2006 997 last month and while researching the service history, I asked the three dealerships that serviced the my car if they had any cars come through their shops with IMS issues. All three dealerships said they had not had any IMS related issues on Porsche that were serviced. However, I have no idea how long each service advisor had been at these dealerships, though they all seemed aware of the issue. One service advisor was pretty blunt with me and told me he thought the IMS issue was overblown due to the internet.
I have a friend in the club that bought a new 2001 Boxster. The motor failed at about 85,000 miles from presumably the IMS bearing or shaft failure. He is a very good mechanic and changed the oil every 12,000 to 15,000 miles per the book. The car was a daily driver and not babied.
I know directly of one other complete IMS failure that happened two years ago. Late model ('03 or '04 - I can't remember the exact year) 986 Boxster S with 48,000 miles had it's IMS bearing let go on the freeway and left him stranded. He bought it used with low miles and was changing oil every 10,000 to 12,000 miles. It was not his daily driver and did a few autocrosses (which I can't believe would be abusive considering it's a Porsche).
It'll be interesting to see if at some point the aftermarket will be able to pinpoint what exactly is causing these failures.
Again, this information is not scientific or to be relied upon and is a minute sample (if you even want to call it a sample). However, if this issue was as massive as the internet makes it seem, you'd think there would be a few cars per quarter (per year?) hitting these shops with total failures.
This summer I asked my other local dealership's service advisor who has been there for at least 15 years the same question. They had one 986 Boxster recently with a completely failed motor due to the IMS bearing issue and years ago they had a few 1999's with the D-Chunk issue (cylinder sleeve separated from block) when those were brand new cars. So, one IMS issue in 15 years... However, I have no idea how that car was driven or serviced.
I bought a 2006 997 last month and while researching the service history, I asked the three dealerships that serviced the my car if they had any cars come through their shops with IMS issues. All three dealerships said they had not had any IMS related issues on Porsche that were serviced. However, I have no idea how long each service advisor had been at these dealerships, though they all seemed aware of the issue. One service advisor was pretty blunt with me and told me he thought the IMS issue was overblown due to the internet.
I have a friend in the club that bought a new 2001 Boxster. The motor failed at about 85,000 miles from presumably the IMS bearing or shaft failure. He is a very good mechanic and changed the oil every 12,000 to 15,000 miles per the book. The car was a daily driver and not babied.
I know directly of one other complete IMS failure that happened two years ago. Late model ('03 or '04 - I can't remember the exact year) 986 Boxster S with 48,000 miles had it's IMS bearing let go on the freeway and left him stranded. He bought it used with low miles and was changing oil every 10,000 to 12,000 miles. It was not his daily driver and did a few autocrosses (which I can't believe would be abusive considering it's a Porsche).
It'll be interesting to see if at some point the aftermarket will be able to pinpoint what exactly is causing these failures.
Again, this information is not scientific or to be relied upon and is a minute sample (if you even want to call it a sample). However, if this issue was as massive as the internet makes it seem, you'd think there would be a few cars per quarter (per year?) hitting these shops with total failures.
Last edited by Jay H; 10-01-2011 at 12:31 PM.
10-01-2011, 12:13 PM
#65
Drifting
To put some statistical perspective behind these numbers. 7 of 40 = a 17.5% failure rate or worst then a 1 of 6 ratio of 996/997.1 affected. Assuming that Porsche sold 5,000 of these vehicles per year in the US... I don't have the exact numbers per year but let's use 5,000/yr for demonstration purposes. Assuming this... the 996/997.1 models were sold from '98-08 so 10 years x 5K vehicles = 50K p-cars. A failure rate of 17.5% would yield 8,750 vehicles affected by IMS according to the 7 0f 40 fear ratio. If these number were even half true there would be a national if not global recall... I know a few lawyers who own these particular p-car models and you'd think they'd do something if 1 in 6 of them were affected by an engine grenade. Is it more likely that there are 7 or so known cases across the worldwide web out of 50,000 vehicles sold or a ratio of less than 1 in 7,000... BTW, 1 in 3,000 of us are likely to be struck by lightning in our lifetime per National Geographic.
10-03-2011, 11:18 AM
#66
Rennlist Member
look up the list of threads today - an another 2006 car just grenaded. fun, eh?
10-03-2011, 11:28 AM
#67
Yes, another blown 997 recently on this board adds to the list...
10-03-2011, 12:00 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
BTW I suggest anyone who does have an engine failure should fill out the easy NHTSA form :
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
It appears to be the best/only way to get the problem officially counted.
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
It appears to be the best/only way to get the problem officially counted.
