Ray S

Happily, I can report the same for my '00 986 and my '02 996..

ADias

Just to note that that is the new 9A1 engine released in the new '09 models. This is a totally new engine with DFI and 40% fewer moving parts. And BTW it is at this point totally unproven...

I agree w/ Dan, the M96/M97 engines do not have any more problems than any previous 911 series engine - just different issues. And yes its issues have been blown out of proportion on Internet forums.

Likemystoppie?

+1 million!!!

See my comments in the guys thread about engine failure.

WANTED911SC

The PORSCHE 997 Engines that are normally aspirated for 1999-2002 are very troubled. I know first hand that a PORSCHE Dealer would have several engines on hand for the poor customer to limp in with their prized 911. I dont think that PORSCHE did their homework - plain and simple. A PORSCHE mechanic that I know told me to stay away from any engine that wasnt derived from the TT IF i must get a water cooled porsche.

911 Air Cooled Cars RULE

BRING IT BACK

USMC_DS1

I'm coming up on 49K with my '08 997.1s. It sat at a p-dealer for 4-5 months before I bought it... so leaky RMS at 46K was replaced under warranty. This is to be expected when it just sets there. Other than the RMS seal it was all standard stuff on the service records - oil changes, replacement windshield due to rock damage, etc. Good so far.

acao

No such thing.

simsgw

So you resurrected a two-year-old thread to offer three misstatements in one paragraph of four sentences? Wow.

Gary

gota911

He must be a BMW Troll and pissed off because he has to drive on "run-flat" tires!

utkinpol

you know, when i speak to my mechanic he says it in the simple form - any car should be treated as a disposable. STILL, he says, all newer cars are not what older hand made models like 968, 993 used to be - 996 and 97 cars with age develop so many issues that restoration becomes illogical. car simply falls apart. like $30K repair on a 968 car will make it go another 50K miles at 100K miles point - on a newer cars quality of materials and amount of issues does not warrant that.
same with engines - it is pointless even to open up m96 or m97 motor, they all just discard them as it is cheaper to buy another one for $16K (considerinng that you have a core to supply) then to try to repair it.
i find it utterly ridiculous but it is where prices went. $6K is a labor cost just to drop off and put back an engine. i seriously consider now to invest into my own lift for my garage as i do not want to discard my car and i do not think i will be able to sustain pro mechanic rates when car will need new axles, some engine work like blown gasket, etc.
like right now i`m doing major 50K maintenance as my clutch went south - clutch work is 2k, plus new flywheel 1K, plus car gets new AOS, RMS. plus i put in Guards TBD - that alone probably will get to $3K total. none of that I can do in my garage as i have no lift, nothing of that is difficult to do, well, may be with exception of installing TBD into transmission as it requires skill and some precision tools or you`ll kiil ring and pinion.

i used to take engines apart, it is all doable stuff, but, well, labor prices on p-cars went totally crazy. only way for an average person not to be hit with this crap is to sell car away as soon it gets off warranty.

to speak of original question of engines - it is no doubt, m96 and m97 engines are crap. IMS issues happen on all years. my engine now has slow coolant leak on left side head. there are possibilities for numerous internal issues, crankshaft, rods, rod bolts, cracks on cylinders (6th usually), sleeves...

all in all i very seriously consider finding a spare motor somewhere for peanuts and learning to work it. with a lift it is not such big of a job for 2 guys to swap an engine. it is all doable. and i do not want to shell out $20K for new motor if it can be avoided.

Weissach

If you look around at the local classifieds, you'll see many 996's/boxsters stating that the engines have been replaced. Many are rollers(no engine). This is NOT normal...and it's certainly not limited to just some guys posting on web forums...

Weissach

BTW, you can't compare it to a 928's and 993's.. Those are cars that if taken care of, will outlast their owners..

utkinpol

older boxsters are total disaster and that is why if you lok at prices used 2.5L boxster engines cost like in $3K area. a guy i know got his 2.5L blown at last NHMS event. now he puts in 3.4L 996 motor which was re-worked by racing shop so hopefully it will run reliably for some time.
m97 motor did cost much less than GT3 motor for a reason, but, again, no matter what motor you get, if you run it at 7K-8K rpm for long enough time you cannot expect it to last forever like a camry V6 that almost never gets above 3K rpm in its lifecycle. or a diesel. it is a racing engine and it has limited lifecycle, still, amount of shortcuts porsche did in m96/m97 is disasterous. 9A1 new 997.2 motor supposebly should be mostly free of those things, but, how do you know? it was just 2 years from '09. as most of cars will start getting to 50K miles range it will become more obvious how good rods and othe internals in stock street 997.2 9A1 motors are. But so far i do not think we had a single incident reported on any of p-cars forums, i mean related to a blown engine in a 997.2 car. and it speak volumes compared to amount of m97 enginnes that can go at 15K miles, 30K miles, 40K miles, literally any time when they feel like it.

utkinpol

well, to speak of that, most 993 cars need valves to be replaced close to 60k miles, and engine work on those cars is VERY expensive. that was one of major reason for me to forget about getting RS america car for racing, actiually, after i learned how much exactly you have to pay and how often for its motor to be refreshed.
so newer engines are not worse in all regards. most of issues were caused by 'cost reduction' items like replacing suppliers they had for ages with 'cheaper' ones with QA issues, replacing forged parts with cast parts, as usual - marketing people who come to 'increase profits' kill a good product.

jakes dad

I know it's been asked many times before but.... what is the cost of a total engine failure???

What's the worst case scenario? engine, install and associated items required to put you back on the road?
I'm talking about new parts from Porsche..
Obviously I'm looking for a ballpark figure... 15K 20K???

utkinpol

it depends. i just spoke to my mechanic about this. if you want to buy brand new M97 X51 motor with no discounts - it is $40K or so.

standard M96 motor costs $16K assuming you have a core to give back - means usable non-cracked motor base. on top of that you will have labor - about of $6K probably to swap motor out.

when you deal with dealers you may get some discounts, in average ( I THINK ) I saw figures like in case of IMS failure ona car out of warranty when dealer covers part of labor and part of engine, like 20% and it ends up with $10K-$13K for motor and like $2K-$3K for labor. I also saw samples of total bills for this work - usually it is close to $20K one way or another, people who get total thing done close to $15K are lucky ones. that is with new crate from Porsche. Other way is to shop around (creatively) for remanufactured/restored usedm96/m97 motor. Those usually cost around of $9K or so but obviously you get an another granade ready to explode when it will decide it is its time to blow.

Dealer discounts apply usually only if engine went down due to something related to known problems with motor design and PCNA agrees to honor i which is also not guaranteed. Anything like that with Toyota or honda would cause class action long time ago, but with luxury brands - well, I honestly think best thing for any M96/M97 motor owner to do is to upgrade to car with 9A1. It is way better way to invest $$K than to pay for another m96/m97.