Real life pricing
10-31-2008, 11:36 AM
#46
Nothing all that great, really just wasted my time. Dealer had a nicely equipped car in stock. I called them to inquire. They said it was still available. I told them I had been given serious offers of 10% or more off MSRP from any in stock vehicle at another dealer. They said no problem come on down.
I went, I drove the beautiful thing and told the guy I wanted it. I gave him my price, he laughed and said I will give you $4500 of sticker, no more and no toss ins. I reiterated what he had said on the phone and his response was, "sorry." I again offered 10% off sticker with an added "last chance." He restated his $4500.
Needless to say I bought from the other dealer, which I was going to do in the first place if this other car wasn't so close to exactly what I wanted. Maybe next time I will see if they can do a dealer trade. FWIW sticker on both cars was over $100k.
I went, I drove the beautiful thing and told the guy I wanted it. I gave him my price, he laughed and said I will give you $4500 of sticker, no more and no toss ins. I reiterated what he had said on the phone and his response was, "sorry." I again offered 10% off sticker with an added "last chance." He restated his $4500.
Needless to say I bought from the other dealer, which I was going to do in the first place if this other car wasn't so close to exactly what I wanted. Maybe next time I will see if they can do a dealer trade. FWIW sticker on both cars was over $100k.
10-31-2008, 11:41 AM
#47
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Nothing all that great, really just wasted my time. Dealer had a nicely equipped car in stock. I called them to inquire. They said it was still available. I told them I had been given serious offers of 10% or more off MSRP from any in stock vehicle at another dealer. They said no problem come on down.
I went, I drove the beautiful thing and told the guy I wanted it. I gave him my price, he laughed and said I will give you $4500 of sticker, no more and no toss ins. I reiterated what he had said on the phone and his response was, "sorry." I again offered 10% off sticker with an added "last chance." He restated his $4500.
Needless to say I bought from the other dealer, which I was going to do in the first place if this other car wasn't so close to exactly what I wanted. Maybe next time I will see if they can do a dealer trade. FWIW sticker on both cars was over $100k.
I went, I drove the beautiful thing and told the guy I wanted it. I gave him my price, he laughed and said I will give you $4500 of sticker, no more and no toss ins. I reiterated what he had said on the phone and his response was, "sorry." I again offered 10% off sticker with an added "last chance." He restated his $4500.
Needless to say I bought from the other dealer, which I was going to do in the first place if this other car wasn't so close to exactly what I wanted. Maybe next time I will see if they can do a dealer trade. FWIW sticker on both cars was over $100k.
12-08-2008, 10:05 PM
#49
Three Wheelin'
The price you pay is determined by supply/demand/market conditions. Porsche sales are down 25% for the year. Read that last sentence again. Right now is not simply a "buyers market" it's a buyer's DREAM COME TRUE. Dealers have no leverage. None. The typical base 2009 Carerra has at least $ 12K of pure profit built into the MSRP. That profit rises (sometimes dramatically) with each and every option.
Of course the dealer should make a nice profit. I don't work for free, do you? However there is a difference between making a profit and robbing a customer.
You should EASILY (without any argument what so ever) be able to knock 6 - 7 % off the MSRP. If the dealer starts to cry about it, tell them to STFU and walk out the door. They will literally beg you to return. At that price the dealer is still making thousands and thousands in profit. ( over $4K in profit minimum)
Of course the dealer should make a nice profit. I don't work for free, do you? However there is a difference between making a profit and robbing a customer.
You should EASILY (without any argument what so ever) be able to knock 6 - 7 % off the MSRP. If the dealer starts to cry about it, tell them to STFU and walk out the door. They will literally beg you to return. At that price the dealer is still making thousands and thousands in profit. ( over $4K in profit minimum)
12-08-2008, 10:20 PM
#50
Burning Brakes
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12-08-2008, 11:10 PM
#51
Interesting thread with great opinions from all sides.
Can someone please explain why (it seems to me) you guys think an ordered car would get a smaller discount than a car already on the lot pre-ordered by the dealer?
Assuming a buyer who has done their research walks in with their order already written down, to me it seems the ordered car requires no effort by the dealer to sell, no costs to keep it on the lot for a few weeks/months, no detailing every week, no moving around, etc.
Why would an ordered car not get a higher discount than a delaer ordered car?
Can someone please explain why (it seems to me) you guys think an ordered car would get a smaller discount than a car already on the lot pre-ordered by the dealer?
Assuming a buyer who has done their research walks in with their order already written down, to me it seems the ordered car requires no effort by the dealer to sell, no costs to keep it on the lot for a few weeks/months, no detailing every week, no moving around, etc.
Why would an ordered car not get a higher discount than a delaer ordered car?
12-09-2008, 12:15 AM
#53
Three Wheelin'
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Interesting thread with great opinions from all sides.
Can someone please explain why (it seems to me) you guys think an ordered car would get a smaller discount than a car already on the lot pre-ordered by the dealer?
Assuming a buyer who has done their research walks in with their order already written down, to me it seems the ordered car requires no effort by the dealer to sell, no costs to keep it on the lot for a few weeks/months, no detailing every week, no moving around, etc.
Why would an ordered car not get a higher discount than a delaer ordered car?
Can someone please explain why (it seems to me) you guys think an ordered car would get a smaller discount than a car already on the lot pre-ordered by the dealer?
Assuming a buyer who has done their research walks in with their order already written down, to me it seems the ordered car requires no effort by the dealer to sell, no costs to keep it on the lot for a few weeks/months, no detailing every week, no moving around, etc.
Why would an ordered car not get a higher discount than a delaer ordered car?
12-09-2008, 12:35 AM
#54
Drifting
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I would appreciate responses from people who have either ordered or have purchased a 2009 Carrera or Carrera S and more specifically with the new PDK transmission.
In general terms ( don't have to reveal any secrets) what was the final price as compared to MSRP? Are you or did you get any discount off MSRP ( I would hope no one paid more) and if so aproximately how much?
The reason, I have a Carrera S on order (December build) and still negotiating the final price. Thanks to all that choose to comment.
In general terms ( don't have to reveal any secrets) what was the final price as compared to MSRP? Are you or did you get any discount off MSRP ( I would hope no one paid more) and if so aproximately how much?
The reason, I have a Carrera S on order (December build) and still negotiating the final price. Thanks to all that choose to comment.
my best sources indicate there is no trunk money yet
12-09-2008, 02:37 AM
#55
For exactly the reasons you've stated. A car already in inventory costs the dealer everyday it doesn't sell, so there's a greater incentive for the dealer to move it. Comparatively speaking, there's less leverage on an ordered car since the dealer isn't as motivated to give it away.
12-09-2008, 03:01 AM
#56
Miserable Old Bastard
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I am pondering ordering a paint-to-sample car next year, and I would hope that in this market, I could score a good deal - but it would probably make a lot more sense to forget the paint-to-sample and buy off the lot. Now, if I can score a GT3 on order at a great price, then that could be tempting anyway!
12-09-2008, 03:09 AM
#57
Burning Brakes
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To some extent, it is not so much an economic issue that can be explained with logic, as it is an outcome of a certain psychological factor in the consumer problem-solving process that touches upon the general concept of price elasticity of demand.
Someone who wishes to purchase a luxury car that is exactly in accordance with their preferences (and - hence - they order it rather than to buy it off the lot), is generally less sensitive to price premiums, because they get exactly what they want without having to compromise. Dealers know they can be less flexible and still make the sale.
On the other hand, if you are willing to compromise with regard to the "perfect solution" (and buy off the lot), you expect some compensation for your willingness to forego. Dealers know that they have to be more flexible to make the sale.
In other words, somewhat simplified, it's similar to what the average male is willing to do when he's dating a really hot chick vs. when he is dating a regular girl. The hot chick knows she can get away with more stuff.
Again, this is a psychological outcome and technically (and rationally) there is no reason to not request the same compensation (i.e., discount) for special orders. Ceteris paribus, you could actually look all over the States and find your "perfect solution" on some other dealer's lot. Those who primarily focus on price are more likely to do that, but others who also factor in components such as relationship history etc. are less likely to do that.
Someone who wishes to purchase a luxury car that is exactly in accordance with their preferences (and - hence - they order it rather than to buy it off the lot), is generally less sensitive to price premiums, because they get exactly what they want without having to compromise. Dealers know they can be less flexible and still make the sale.
On the other hand, if you are willing to compromise with regard to the "perfect solution" (and buy off the lot), you expect some compensation for your willingness to forego. Dealers know that they have to be more flexible to make the sale.
In other words, somewhat simplified, it's similar to what the average male is willing to do when he's dating a really hot chick vs. when he is dating a regular girl. The hot chick knows she can get away with more stuff.
Again, this is a psychological outcome and technically (and rationally) there is no reason to not request the same compensation (i.e., discount) for special orders. Ceteris paribus, you could actually look all over the States and find your "perfect solution" on some other dealer's lot. Those who primarily focus on price are more likely to do that, but others who also factor in components such as relationship history etc. are less likely to do that.
12-09-2008, 11:22 AM
#58
Three Wheelin'
That is correct, provided that they get their utilities for free, don't pay any salaries or wages to any of their employees, got a free building and free advertising for life, pay no other administrative and operating costs whatsoever, and are willing to assume inventory risk without ROI considerations.
Marvelously
Stupendously
Ridiculous
Profit
12-09-2008, 11:25 AM
#59
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To some extent, it is not so much an economic issue that can be explained with logic, as it is an outcome of a certain psychological factor in the consumer problem-solving process that touches upon the general concept of price elasticity of demand.
Someone who wishes to purchase a luxury car that is exactly in accordance with their preferences (and - hence - they order it rather than to buy it off the lot), is generally less sensitive to price premiums, because they get exactly what they want without having to compromise. Dealers know they can be less flexible and still make the sale.
On the other hand, if you are willing to compromise with regard to the "perfect solution" (and buy off the lot), you expect some compensation for your willingness to forego. Dealers know that they have to be more flexible to make the sale.
In other words, somewhat simplified, it's similar to what the average male is willing to do when he's dating a really hot chick vs. when he is dating a regular girl. The hot chick knows she can get away with more stuff.
Again, this is a psychological outcome and technically (and rationally) there is no reason to not request the same compensation (i.e., discount) for special orders. Ceteris paribus, you could actually look all over the States and find your "perfect solution" on some other dealer's lot. Those who primarily focus on price are more likely to do that, but others who also factor in components such as relationship history etc. are less likely to do that.
Someone who wishes to purchase a luxury car that is exactly in accordance with their preferences (and - hence - they order it rather than to buy it off the lot), is generally less sensitive to price premiums, because they get exactly what they want without having to compromise. Dealers know they can be less flexible and still make the sale.
On the other hand, if you are willing to compromise with regard to the "perfect solution" (and buy off the lot), you expect some compensation for your willingness to forego. Dealers know that they have to be more flexible to make the sale.
In other words, somewhat simplified, it's similar to what the average male is willing to do when he's dating a really hot chick vs. when he is dating a regular girl. The hot chick knows she can get away with more stuff.
Again, this is a psychological outcome and technically (and rationally) there is no reason to not request the same compensation (i.e., discount) for special orders. Ceteris paribus, you could actually look all over the States and find your "perfect solution" on some other dealer's lot. Those who primarily focus on price are more likely to do that, but others who also factor in components such as relationship history etc. are less likely to do that.
For me it's really simple:
Sales is a TWO WAY STREET. You can sell me almost as much as I can sell you.
I'm WAY more motiviated to take a stupid deal today to count for my month/year then do an order.
One could argue the merit's why a dealership SHOULD or should NOT be just as aggressive on an ordered car; however in MOST cases if the client does indeed (not that they mention it or show signs of it) want the car NOW. NOW. NOW. NOW. NOW. NOW. NOW. NOW. NOW..
Did I mention NOW?!
Becuase in most situations; the client wants to get the bs out of the way and just start bonding with their P car. Same too with the MB's I sell, or for anything. Most clients want instant gratification.
And the reality is; those clients - who constitute a majority of the sales; spend barely ANY if at all- time on the forums.
They'd much rather be enjoying their Porsche or what ever car they're buying. And their life, for them- is too busy.
Todays times are weird. But temporary.
We have sales meetings every single day. In the 6 years I've been doing this and for the 16 my Boss has been doing this we've never observed such madness....
NADA, KBB, Galves ect - they can't keep up with values we're getting off of Manheim or from wholesalers. Wholesalers and other dealerships are NOT writing checks unless there is a 100% a deal behind THAT particular car.
Just the other day I had a cayman s client write me to see what his car was worth; then after I told him he said "okay, can you buy it from me? I don't want it anymore."
I said " I'm sorry, but unless you're going to trade it in towards another car from me, I can't buy it."
He said "Can't or won't."
I said "both. I'm not interested in anymore cars in my inventory."
He said "I'll take my business elsewhere."
Clearly he's not understanding the market. I'm not alone in feeling this way. And listen, I make no apologies; I'm here to STAY. There are a LOT of dealerships FREAKING OUT!!!!
What absolutely KILLS me is that if there EVER was a time to prove the theory about sales being about the RELATIONSHIP; and not the $$$ - that time would be now.
It's a riot. I talk about this all the time with my coworkers and other sales people.
You wanna know why? Because if it was, indeed ALL ABOUT THE $$$- There would be a WHOLE HECK A LOT OF YOU BUYING UP PORSCHE'S AND EVERYTHING ELSE RIGHT NOW!!
lol.
Dealers freaking out is counter-intuitive in physchology. Clients see this and they say "Hmmm. Not good. I'm going to .... what's that magical word?
WAIT! YES!!! AH HA!!! I'm going to WAITTTT!!!"
lmao....keep waiting. Things are going to start bouncing back up in spring. Mark my words.
Otherwise shut me up and go buy a Caaa.
12-09-2008, 01:35 PM
#60
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by Likemystoppie?
Did I mention NOW?!
Originally Posted by ejdoherty911
On $4K gross profit the owner of the dealership probably makes $800 (net)