Real life pricing
10-29-2008, 03:47 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Isn't it? It's just a car. An expensive one, but just a car plus options that get clicked into a computer. If you know what you want, as most people reading this board do, then they don't actually do that much for you.
I echo the comment above that if some Jo can walk off the street and get an X% discount (and they do) then why oh why would you pay full price to maintian some kind of perceived loyalty or fairness?
I echo the comment above that if some Jo can walk off the street and get an X% discount (and they do) then why oh why would you pay full price to maintian some kind of perceived loyalty or fairness?
10-29-2008, 04:03 PM
#17
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This is very true. Although Porsche sales staff seem more knowledgeable than sales reps for other brands, there were instances when I was given info that I knew was completely wrong by Porsche sales people. I decided that I would conduct my own research on Rennlist, other forums and on Porsche's website and in their printed material. By the time I was ready to buy, I had my build sheet and checkbook in hand - "Give me an allocation, type in my order, I'll write a deposit check and we're done" sort of thing. I don't leave much to chance and I rarely have regrets. However, if you require a dozen test drives, assistance going through and deciding on every option, etc., I can see where the dealer might be justified in offering a smaller discount. I tend to be a very easy customer once I get my price nailed down.
10-29-2008, 05:01 PM
#18
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I think some of you would be very surprised to find out that the majority of the Porsche buyers are not the typical 'nickle and dime' type. They buy from those whom they trust to give them a great deal; and take care of them.
Each of you, individually- determine what a good deal. Some of you -not naming names or calling out or even slandering against- insist on 'nickle and diming' the 'stealership' as you call it.
Clients like yourselves are actually the exception, and typically are motivated by other means. And also, you are 5X more likely to NOT be happy about the transaction or for that matter, pretty much a lot of things.
I can only speak for myeslf here; but I give great deals and deliver exactly as I promised. If in the end, you don't end up buying a car from me- it's usually because the logistics didn't work out. Not the price.
Do I sell everyone? Heck no. I do my best to earn someone's business. It's business, and I understand that. If you find someone giving 10%, or 15% or 60% off something- then all the power to you.
There's no right or wrong here. It boils down to the value someone puts on their time. Most, I can say with almost 100% accuracy, would rather be enjoying their 911 rather then trying to squeez every single penny out of the dealer.
And if you find yourself grinding everyone for price; you- honestly- no flame intended- really don't 'trust' anyone.
my .02 cents peeps.
Each of you, individually- determine what a good deal. Some of you -not naming names or calling out or even slandering against- insist on 'nickle and diming' the 'stealership' as you call it.
Clients like yourselves are actually the exception, and typically are motivated by other means. And also, you are 5X more likely to NOT be happy about the transaction or for that matter, pretty much a lot of things.
I can only speak for myeslf here; but I give great deals and deliver exactly as I promised. If in the end, you don't end up buying a car from me- it's usually because the logistics didn't work out. Not the price.
Do I sell everyone? Heck no. I do my best to earn someone's business. It's business, and I understand that. If you find someone giving 10%, or 15% or 60% off something- then all the power to you.
There's no right or wrong here. It boils down to the value someone puts on their time. Most, I can say with almost 100% accuracy, would rather be enjoying their 911 rather then trying to squeez every single penny out of the dealer.
And if you find yourself grinding everyone for price; you- honestly- no flame intended- really don't 'trust' anyone.
my .02 cents peeps.
10-29-2008, 06:12 PM
#19
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We had threads like this before, so it's not surprising to see the variety of views. I like diversity, so I always enjoy these threads. It's just important to realize that different people have different views, and while some are concerned about getting the lowest possible price in real monetary terms, others simply aren't. It really is a personal preference, and it really is that simple.
Some of the opinions expressed in this thread actually directly relate to individual personality traits - for example, the degree to which one compares one's own outcome with what others received; some do that, others could not care less (John Stacy Adams' 'Equity Theory' anyone?). No right or wrong, just different.
I completely understand the different views and opinions, but - personally - the specific price point I can achieve is simply not of that much importance to me, relative to many other aspects of the transaction. In return, I may look at certain factors that many others would classify as completely irrelevant.
For example, many will find this ridiculous, but it's important to me: three of the sales people at my dealership currently have kids at my university, and the dealership has hired our graduates and has offered internships to my students in the past. Along the same lines, it's a local family business and profits made will stay in this area. That itself would prevent me from buying elsewhere. Similarly, I'm about to wrap up building a new house right now, and my choice of suppliers and subcontractors was driven by the same rationales... even though in some instances it did cost me more.
On the other hand, if the other side does not deliver what I'm looking for, I end the relationship as easily as it started (which my first carpenter had to find out rather quickly).
Some of the opinions expressed in this thread actually directly relate to individual personality traits - for example, the degree to which one compares one's own outcome with what others received; some do that, others could not care less (John Stacy Adams' 'Equity Theory' anyone?). No right or wrong, just different.
I completely understand the different views and opinions, but - personally - the specific price point I can achieve is simply not of that much importance to me, relative to many other aspects of the transaction. In return, I may look at certain factors that many others would classify as completely irrelevant.
For example, many will find this ridiculous, but it's important to me: three of the sales people at my dealership currently have kids at my university, and the dealership has hired our graduates and has offered internships to my students in the past. Along the same lines, it's a local family business and profits made will stay in this area. That itself would prevent me from buying elsewhere. Similarly, I'm about to wrap up building a new house right now, and my choice of suppliers and subcontractors was driven by the same rationales... even though in some instances it did cost me more.
On the other hand, if the other side does not deliver what I'm looking for, I end the relationship as easily as it started (which my first carpenter had to find out rather quickly).
10-29-2008, 06:27 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
That is correct, you can only speak for yourself.
Having been both a Porsche fan and So Cal resident since childhood, over the decades I've been to and spoken with salespeople at most dealers in Porsche's largest market. I can say that most do absolutely nothing to earn my respect; as a customer my goal would be to obtain a car for absolutely the lowest price possible because they deserve the very least amount of profit.
Most recent example was at BH Porsche on 997.2 launch day. The launch cars were nowhere in sight, and the sales manager played dumb when I asked about them. Once it became clear that I knew what I was talking about (should the salesperson not show some product knowledge?) I was shuttled (after a salesman shuffled some cars around) down the street and five floors below ground to a dark storage facility. Clean and ready to go, but clearly out of sight in an effort to move 2008 inventory. Both launch cars were jammed between others, locked, and the salesman didn't think to bring any keys. Total waste of my time. On the way back to the dealership he had the nerve to ask me which I was planning to buy today. When I said I would want to order to my specs, he gave me a "pffft that will take a year". Exactly why should I trust guys like this to give me a good deal?
For the record, I leased my 2005 through PFS at full MSRP; it was 10/04, and I understand the principle of supply/demand, so I didn't even try to negotiate. I had followed the salesman to an out-of-the way dealership because I had a rare good experience with him on a test drive a couple years earlier and I held on to his card. I would have gone to him first this time 'round, but I discovered via the internet that he has since moved to an even more out-of-the-way dealership without letting his customers know. Exactly why should I trust guys like this to give me a good deal?
Bottom line is that it is a buyers market, car salesman (at least in this area) get little respect because they deserve no more, and getting the best deal possible on a $100k purchase is no reflection on how people conduct their lives in general.
Having been both a Porsche fan and So Cal resident since childhood, over the decades I've been to and spoken with salespeople at most dealers in Porsche's largest market. I can say that most do absolutely nothing to earn my respect; as a customer my goal would be to obtain a car for absolutely the lowest price possible because they deserve the very least amount of profit.
Most recent example was at BH Porsche on 997.2 launch day. The launch cars were nowhere in sight, and the sales manager played dumb when I asked about them. Once it became clear that I knew what I was talking about (should the salesperson not show some product knowledge?) I was shuttled (after a salesman shuffled some cars around) down the street and five floors below ground to a dark storage facility. Clean and ready to go, but clearly out of sight in an effort to move 2008 inventory. Both launch cars were jammed between others, locked, and the salesman didn't think to bring any keys. Total waste of my time. On the way back to the dealership he had the nerve to ask me which I was planning to buy today. When I said I would want to order to my specs, he gave me a "pffft that will take a year". Exactly why should I trust guys like this to give me a good deal?
For the record, I leased my 2005 through PFS at full MSRP; it was 10/04, and I understand the principle of supply/demand, so I didn't even try to negotiate. I had followed the salesman to an out-of-the way dealership because I had a rare good experience with him on a test drive a couple years earlier and I held on to his card. I would have gone to him first this time 'round, but I discovered via the internet that he has since moved to an even more out-of-the-way dealership without letting his customers know. Exactly why should I trust guys like this to give me a good deal?
Bottom line is that it is a buyers market, car salesman (at least in this area) get little respect because they deserve no more, and getting the best deal possible on a $100k purchase is no reflection on how people conduct their lives in general.
10-29-2008, 06:32 PM
#22
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Wolfgang, it sounds like your heart is in the right place, if not your wallet. 
Seriously, you come across as a good neighbor and a socially conscious individual, but in a business sense, to some degree you are a unit sold. Would it seriously not bother you to know that a buyer with no ties to and absolutely no loyalty to the dealership walked in right behind you and spent considerably less money, we'll say $5,000, on the exact same car? Doesn't seem right to me that such a good guy might get such a sub par deal.
Now if I'm building a house, the rules definitely change. We are now talking about very unique crafts and services with numerous variables in some instances, where an automobile is a fungible item.
Seriously, you come across as a good neighbor and a socially conscious individual, but in a business sense, to some degree you are a unit sold. Would it seriously not bother you to know that a buyer with no ties to and absolutely no loyalty to the dealership walked in right behind you and spent considerably less money, we'll say $5,000, on the exact same car? Doesn't seem right to me that such a good guy might get such a sub par deal.Now if I'm building a house, the rules definitely change. We are now talking about very unique crafts and services with numerous variables in some instances, where an automobile is a fungible item.
10-29-2008, 06:53 PM
#24
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To the extent that you can order one car identically to another, new cars are fungible by definition. Now, if you want to impute some sort of sentimentality to your car that is your biz, but I assure you that the value inherent in your love for your car was not added by your salesman. I absolutely love driving my car, but if it was stolen, I would not be depressed about shopping for its replacement with the insurance money.
10-29-2008, 06:57 PM
#25
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That is correct, you can only speak for yourself.
Having been both a Porsche fan and So Cal resident since childhood, over the decades I've been to and spoken with salespeople at most dealers in Porsche's largest market. I can say that most do absolutely nothing to earn my respect; as a customer my goal would be to obtain a car for absolutely the lowest price possible because they deserve the very least amount of profit.
Most recent example was at BH Porsche on 997.2 launch day. The launch cars were nowhere in sight, and the sales manager played dumb when I asked about them. Once it became clear that I knew what I was talking about (should the salesperson not show some product knowledge?) I was shuttled (after a salesman shuffled some cars around) down the street and five floors below ground to a dark storage facility. Clean and ready to go, but clearly out of sight in an effort to move 2008 inventory. Both launch cars were jammed between others, locked, and the salesman didn't think to bring any keys. Total waste of my time. On the way back to the dealership he had the nerve to ask me which I was planning to buy today. When I said I would want to order to my specs, he gave me a "pffft that will take a year". Exactly why should I trust guys like this to give me a good deal?
For the record, I leased my 2005 through PFS at full MSRP; it was 10/04, and I understand the principle of supply/demand, so I didn't even try to negotiate. I had followed the salesman to an out-of-the way dealership because I had a rare good experience with him on a test drive a couple years earlier and I held on to his card. I would have gone to him first this time 'round, but I discovered via the internet that he has since moved to an even more out-of-the-way dealership without letting his customers know. Exactly why should I trust guys like this to give me a good deal?
Bottom line is that it is a buyers market, car salesman (at least in this area) get little respect because they deserve no more, and getting the best deal possible on a $100k purchase is no reflection on how people conduct their lives in general.
Having been both a Porsche fan and So Cal resident since childhood, over the decades I've been to and spoken with salespeople at most dealers in Porsche's largest market. I can say that most do absolutely nothing to earn my respect; as a customer my goal would be to obtain a car for absolutely the lowest price possible because they deserve the very least amount of profit.
Most recent example was at BH Porsche on 997.2 launch day. The launch cars were nowhere in sight, and the sales manager played dumb when I asked about them. Once it became clear that I knew what I was talking about (should the salesperson not show some product knowledge?) I was shuttled (after a salesman shuffled some cars around) down the street and five floors below ground to a dark storage facility. Clean and ready to go, but clearly out of sight in an effort to move 2008 inventory. Both launch cars were jammed between others, locked, and the salesman didn't think to bring any keys. Total waste of my time. On the way back to the dealership he had the nerve to ask me which I was planning to buy today. When I said I would want to order to my specs, he gave me a "pffft that will take a year". Exactly why should I trust guys like this to give me a good deal?
For the record, I leased my 2005 through PFS at full MSRP; it was 10/04, and I understand the principle of supply/demand, so I didn't even try to negotiate. I had followed the salesman to an out-of-the way dealership because I had a rare good experience with him on a test drive a couple years earlier and I held on to his card. I would have gone to him first this time 'round, but I discovered via the internet that he has since moved to an even more out-of-the-way dealership without letting his customers know. Exactly why should I trust guys like this to give me a good deal?
Bottom line is that it is a buyers market, car salesman (at least in this area) get little respect because they deserve no more, and getting the best deal possible on a $100k purchase is no reflection on how people conduct their lives in general.
As for me; You dont have to trust me. All you have to do is ask around about me and how I do business.
Not to be cocky, but you'll see my name thrown around on RL then anyone else. - minus Alfie.
That's not because I'm some stereo typical idiot sales person. I'm a Sales Professional. This is my career. And I work hard to do what's best for the client.
You have been subjected to too many bad sales people. And for that- I'm sorry. Really I am. Because end of the day; they represent the same brand that I sell.
And if they really mess up; Porsche could lose a client for life.
10-29-2008, 06:59 PM
#26
The bottom line price isn't the most important thing to me either. The most important thing to me is feeling like I'm being respected (even if I'm just a number at the end of the day), and that I can trust the salesman's word. I'm 29 years old, and I look like I'm about 25. If I walked into a Houston dealership, I have little faith that I would be approached by a salesman who believes I am a serious buyer that knows something about the product. I also appreciate dealing with someone that believes in the brand, rather than someone who would just as soon be selling widgets at the same profit margin and doesn't bother to learn anything more about the cars than he is required to know.
Anyways, I decided not to take any chances and go to Chris at North Olmsted (Likemystoppie? here) for my order. Yeah, he's in Cleveland, but unless he's got some elaborate scheme going on here with about 150 different usernames, he's well respected, trustworthy, and obviously is a Porsche fan. I won't go into pricing details, but our negotiation lasted about 10 seconds and his first offer was better than what I thought I might ultimately be paying for the car before I even contacted him. I am very confident that if I tried to get the same deal here in Houston on an ordered-to-spec car, I would be laughed out of the parking lot.
An easy transaction, respect, and trustworthiness all trump a couple of thousand bucks any day of the week for me.
Anyways, I decided not to take any chances and go to Chris at North Olmsted (Likemystoppie? here) for my order. Yeah, he's in Cleveland, but unless he's got some elaborate scheme going on here with about 150 different usernames, he's well respected, trustworthy, and obviously is a Porsche fan. I won't go into pricing details, but our negotiation lasted about 10 seconds and his first offer was better than what I thought I might ultimately be paying for the car before I even contacted him. I am very confident that if I tried to get the same deal here in Houston on an ordered-to-spec car, I would be laughed out of the parking lot.
An easy transaction, respect, and trustworthiness all trump a couple of thousand bucks any day of the week for me.
10-29-2008, 07:04 PM
#27
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The bottom line price isn't the most important thing to me either. The most important thing to me is feeling like I'm being respected (even if I'm just a number at the end of the day), and that I can trust the salesman's word. I'm 29 years old, and I look like I'm about 25. If I walked into a Houston dealership, I have little faith that I would be approached by a salesman who believes I am a serious buyer that knows something about the product. I also appreciate dealing with someone that believes in the brand, rather than someone who would just as soon be selling widgets at the same profit margin and doesn't bother to learn anything more about the cars than he is required to know.
Anyways, I decided not to take any chances and go to Chris at North Olmsted (Likemystoppie? here) for my order. Yeah, he's in Cleveland, but unless he's got some elaborate scheme going on here with about 150 different usernames, he's well respected, trustworthy, and obviously is a Porsche fan. I won't go into pricing details, but our negotiation lasted about 10 seconds and his first offer was better than what I thought I might ultimately be paying for the car before I even contacted him. I am very confident that if I tried to get the same deal here in Houston on an ordered-to-spec car, I would be laughed out of the parking lot.
An easy transaction, respect, and trustworthiness all trump a couple of thousand bucks any day of the week for me.
Anyways, I decided not to take any chances and go to Chris at North Olmsted (Likemystoppie? here) for my order. Yeah, he's in Cleveland, but unless he's got some elaborate scheme going on here with about 150 different usernames, he's well respected, trustworthy, and obviously is a Porsche fan. I won't go into pricing details, but our negotiation lasted about 10 seconds and his first offer was better than what I thought I might ultimately be paying for the car before I even contacted him. I am very confident that if I tried to get the same deal here in Houston on an ordered-to-spec car, I would be laughed out of the parking lot.
An easy transaction, respect, and trustworthiness all trump a couple of thousand bucks any day of the week for me.
And thanks for the plug man. Much love.
10-29-2008, 07:50 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Since I started this thread, I should jump in and say thank you to all that commented. To the person that said don't sweat the small stuff... you are so right. I was just fishing. I will honor the commitment to my local dealer and I know he will do me right. He and Porsche bought back my 2007 GT3 at full price and gave me a great deal on a 2008 Cayman S. Which by the way in two months I have put 5700 miles on. with a little luck the Carrera S will be in before New Years and that will be great. In the meantime I'll just keep driving the other toys and enjoying each day. Work hard young people as retirement is fun and worth waiting for, my wife and I enjoy EVERY DAY. Drive safe
10-29-2008, 08:27 PM
#30
