Is Porsche in trouble in 20-30 years?
09-14-2008, 09:50 AM
#19
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Long rant here.
I think porsche will be in trouble in the future. Just look at the past, they got into trouble in the 90's because the cars had become so bloated and expensive. If it was not for the Boxster there might not be a company today. They introduced the Cayenne which also resulted in huge sales and profitability. The big difference between the two was that the Boxster was a true Porsche in that it is a sports car. The Cayenne is geared towards soccer moms and people who feel they need a $80K minivan. Look at the new Transsiberia model, $70K base and I heard you have to pay extra to get the off road package! The 911 keeps getting heavier each year and loaded with more farkles that I do not need/want. The 911 was so overpriced back in the mid 90's that my car (2006) looked like a bargain. The base price for the 911 is starting to climb again and will probably be $100K in 5 or 6 years. The ridiculous options list, along with the fact that most dealers cannot stock a car with under $5k in options, means a car out the door is $90K. Porsche must keep stock on hand for past options in case a customer needs a new part, japan learned a long time ago it was much cheaper to stock one seat belt (black) than the dozen or so colors available at Porsche. All of this rolling debauchery would be ok with me if I could get a no-nonsense, lightweight, reliable sports car at a reasonable price. But they make you pat a LOT more for the GT2/3. I have wanted a 911 since I test drove a 1973 911 back in 1978 (I bought a Trans-Am instead, for the same $). In 2004 I bought a CPO 2001 Boxster, great car and never in the shop for a single problem after I put 40,000 miles on it. Traded it for a 2006 CPO 997S and it has been in the shop nearly every month for one thing or another. That is besides the fact it handles like a sailboat when the turns are not perfectly flat. Some of this can be attributed to dealer incompetance, they replaced the tranny and 3 days later the shift cable broke, and they refused to let me have the car brought over that day. I am not saying we need to go back to air cooling, just that it should not cost more to leave leather and the other bling-bling off the car.
I think porsche will be in trouble in the future. Just look at the past, they got into trouble in the 90's because the cars had become so bloated and expensive. If it was not for the Boxster there might not be a company today. They introduced the Cayenne which also resulted in huge sales and profitability. The big difference between the two was that the Boxster was a true Porsche in that it is a sports car. The Cayenne is geared towards soccer moms and people who feel they need a $80K minivan. Look at the new Transsiberia model, $70K base and I heard you have to pay extra to get the off road package! The 911 keeps getting heavier each year and loaded with more farkles that I do not need/want. The 911 was so overpriced back in the mid 90's that my car (2006) looked like a bargain. The base price for the 911 is starting to climb again and will probably be $100K in 5 or 6 years. The ridiculous options list, along with the fact that most dealers cannot stock a car with under $5k in options, means a car out the door is $90K. Porsche must keep stock on hand for past options in case a customer needs a new part, japan learned a long time ago it was much cheaper to stock one seat belt (black) than the dozen or so colors available at Porsche. All of this rolling debauchery would be ok with me if I could get a no-nonsense, lightweight, reliable sports car at a reasonable price. But they make you pat a LOT more for the GT2/3. I have wanted a 911 since I test drove a 1973 911 back in 1978 (I bought a Trans-Am instead, for the same $). In 2004 I bought a CPO 2001 Boxster, great car and never in the shop for a single problem after I put 40,000 miles on it. Traded it for a 2006 CPO 997S and it has been in the shop nearly every month for one thing or another. That is besides the fact it handles like a sailboat when the turns are not perfectly flat. Some of this can be attributed to dealer incompetance, they replaced the tranny and 3 days later the shift cable broke, and they refused to let me have the car brought over that day. I am not saying we need to go back to air cooling, just that it should not cost more to leave leather and the other bling-bling off the car.
09-14-2008, 12:33 PM
#20
I hope they are thriving 30 years from now but that's pretty far off so I'm going to enjoy mine for the moment.
Like many others here - my Porsche fascination began as a kid. Somewhere in my house is a brochure from 1972 featuring the 911s on some spectacular Alpine serpentine roads...
Of course the 917s at LeMans and 908s and other racing legends only further cemented Porsche as the car to have (other than various Ferraris)
JimG has an interesting point - I'd rather have Porsche introduce and Elise competitor than the fugly Panorama. I hate the Cayenne with a passion as well - it's a freakin' rebadged Toureg IMO.
The realist in me accepts that they central to Porsche being profitable but that doesn't mean I have to like them on a visceral level.
Having said all this - I love my C2S but it feels more GT than sports car. I kind of wish I went for a 964 RS America or something a bit more raw though.
Like many others here - my Porsche fascination began as a kid. Somewhere in my house is a brochure from 1972 featuring the 911s on some spectacular Alpine serpentine roads...
Of course the 917s at LeMans and 908s and other racing legends only further cemented Porsche as the car to have (other than various Ferraris)
JimG has an interesting point - I'd rather have Porsche introduce and Elise competitor than the fugly Panorama. I hate the Cayenne with a passion as well - it's a freakin' rebadged Toureg IMO.
The realist in me accepts that they central to Porsche being profitable but that doesn't mean I have to like them on a visceral level.
Having said all this - I love my C2S but it feels more GT than sports car. I kind of wish I went for a 964 RS America or something a bit more raw though.
09-14-2008, 12:46 PM
#21
As long as the potential buyers associate Porsche withe rear-engined models ( and to some extent the Boxster/Cayman) their future should be bright. If potential buyers see Porsche as a source for high performance SUVs and four door luxury cars, it will be the beginning of the end for them ( I must admit that getting into SUVs probably saved the company a few years ago). The 911 is the reason they can sell all of these vehicles. The 911 was always comparable to Ferraris, etc. for about 1/3 the price and more reliable. It is true that the ideal racing/track car would have a mid-engine design like the Boxter and that if the 911 were replaced it should be with a mid-engine design ( eg. larger Boxster?) but then their identity would be lost or diluted and perhaps witha more costly design?.
09-14-2008, 07:18 PM
#22
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These are the most recent group descriptors of Porsche customers in terms of broad consumer psychographics, sampled in the U.S. but generalizable to other geographic regions, too. By now the data are about a decade old but for lack of different information, let's assume for a moment that the groups and sizes have remained relatively constant (which probably is a good assumption):
Top Guns (27 percent of owners): driven and ambitious; strong desire to be noticed; consider power and control to be important.
Elitists (24 percent): old money; a car is just a car, no matter how expensive, and not a representation of one's personality.
Proud Patrons (23 percent): ownership is what counts and an end in itself; car is a trophy and a reward for hard work; being noticed is unimportant.
Bon Vivants (17 percent of owners): thrill-seekers; global mind; car increases excitement in life.
Fantasists (9 percent): car is a form of escape; some guilty feelings about owning the car; try deliberately to avoid impressing with the car.
It's obvious that certain changes in consumer attitudes, values, preferences, tastes etc., and influences from the consumer environment, will always only affect one or two of the psychographic groups.
For example, Porsche falling behind competitors in terms of high-end performance (total hp, acceleration, top speed, etc.) would likely impact Top Guns the most, with Bon Vivants also reconsidering, but would leave the other three groups unaffected.
Or, a change in childhood dreams might hit the segment of Proud Patrons, but not affect most of the other groups.
So, considering that demographic, geographic and behavioristic segmentation variables will add more dimensions to Porsche's general markets and market segments, I continue to believe that one change alone in the market (such as falling behind competitors in performance measures), or even two or three developments (whether internal to Porsche or external [change in childhood dreams]), will not automatically put the whole brand at risk.
They just have to continue identifying and serving other general target markets, as well as a variety of new market segments.
YES, that may result in Porsche neglecting or even abandoning some traditional segments (the ones we are used to, the ones that defined the brand at the early stages of their development), but it will contribute to the health of the brand and increase brand equity.
Do we like that? Well, that's a different question altogether.
Top Guns (27 percent of owners): driven and ambitious; strong desire to be noticed; consider power and control to be important.
Elitists (24 percent): old money; a car is just a car, no matter how expensive, and not a representation of one's personality.
Proud Patrons (23 percent): ownership is what counts and an end in itself; car is a trophy and a reward for hard work; being noticed is unimportant.
Bon Vivants (17 percent of owners): thrill-seekers; global mind; car increases excitement in life.
Fantasists (9 percent): car is a form of escape; some guilty feelings about owning the car; try deliberately to avoid impressing with the car.
It's obvious that certain changes in consumer attitudes, values, preferences, tastes etc., and influences from the consumer environment, will always only affect one or two of the psychographic groups.
For example, Porsche falling behind competitors in terms of high-end performance (total hp, acceleration, top speed, etc.) would likely impact Top Guns the most, with Bon Vivants also reconsidering, but would leave the other three groups unaffected.
Or, a change in childhood dreams might hit the segment of Proud Patrons, but not affect most of the other groups.
So, considering that demographic, geographic and behavioristic segmentation variables will add more dimensions to Porsche's general markets and market segments, I continue to believe that one change alone in the market (such as falling behind competitors in performance measures), or even two or three developments (whether internal to Porsche or external [change in childhood dreams]), will not automatically put the whole brand at risk.
They just have to continue identifying and serving other general target markets, as well as a variety of new market segments.
YES, that may result in Porsche neglecting or even abandoning some traditional segments (the ones we are used to, the ones that defined the brand at the early stages of their development), but it will contribute to the health of the brand and increase brand equity.
Do we like that? Well, that's a different question altogether.
09-14-2008, 10:40 PM
#23
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Porsche is a business and from what I can remember a thriving one at that. They now own a major interest in VW/Audi. Will they be around in 30 yrs? My guess is yes, what form I have no idea but they will be offering cars at a hefty price, with marketing to match. The air cool models were bullet proof, unless you had to deal with a fair share of problems, but we loved them anyway. Today's 997, expensive-to be sure but it's no different than years past and probably will continue well into the future....lets hope.
09-14-2008, 11:53 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
Soulteacher. You also have to factor in which of those groups has the greatest purchasing power, and also which group are the best advocates for the brand, to determine the ability of Porsche to survive for another 20-30 years.
09-15-2008, 12:46 AM
#26
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It's a complex purchase involving a large variety of decision variables and influences, and I'm always surprised how some people view it as a one-dimensional product with only one selection criterion that supposedly is shared by all buyers (e.g., "it's a sports car"; "it's a luxury item"; "it's for fast driving"; "it's to show off"; etc.) - each of these consumer attitudes and motivations are typically only subsegment variables within their larger segments, and these segments in return share the general markets with other segments; and of course several different general markets exist for Porsche cars.
I'm sure Porsche has conducted comprehensive cluster analyses for segmentation and positioning purposes - it's a shame they don't get published (for good reasons).
09-15-2008, 10:07 AM
#27
Three Wheelin'
Those kids who are all into the rice burners grow up, then want the Euro performance. I used to be into the japanese cars when I was younger b/c I couldnt afford a Porsche yet. As soon as I could, I havent looked back since.
As for Porsche as a company. They have been on an upward profit curve since the early 90's. Now that they are adding a whole new segment in the form of the Panamera, I don't see the curve changing anytime soon.
As for Porsche as a company. They have been on an upward profit curve since the early 90's. Now that they are adding a whole new segment in the form of the Panamera, I don't see the curve changing anytime soon.
09-15-2008, 02:14 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
The other point to make is that people rarely fit exclusively into one descriptor. You're likely to find you could be on two descriptors or more. I could fit into Proud Patrons or Fantasists.
09-15-2008, 03:23 PM
#30
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I agree, these are generalizations, and the categories are neither mutually exclusive nor internally exhaustive. As such it's highly unlikely that anyone will just fit one group, or that a single group will fit the consumer to 100 percent (in psychographics research, you usually have primary and secondary affinities anyway). These are classifications providing a firm with a broad psychographic profile for a general understanding of positioning and perception; they are not well-defined market segments that a company would use to formulate its marketing strategy.
As far as Marty's question is concerned, I had actually asked that question to my students: Who am I? The consensus was that primarily I am a Proud Patron (but I do like to be noticed once in a while), and secondarily I am a Bon Vivant (I am more variety-seeking than thrill-seeking, though).
If anyone is interested in figuring out their own value and lifestyle profile (not Porsche-related), they can take the survey at http://www.sric-bi.com/VALS/. I have my students do this every semester and it's kind of fun.
As far as Marty's question is concerned, I had actually asked that question to my students: Who am I? The consensus was that primarily I am a Proud Patron (but I do like to be noticed once in a while), and secondarily I am a Bon Vivant (I am more variety-seeking than thrill-seeking, though).
If anyone is interested in figuring out their own value and lifestyle profile (not Porsche-related), they can take the survey at http://www.sric-bi.com/VALS/. I have my students do this every semester and it's kind of fun.