Noob--Flawed logic?
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Track Day
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 20
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Noob--Flawed logic?
I'm new to the forum. I'd like to say hey to all the members. Rennlist is a great forum and it's terrific to be able to access the experience and knowledge of the Pcar owners that post here.
So help me out. I looked at an '05 C2s that the dealer had priced at $65K. The car is seal gray, 6 speed, Nav, CPO'd, not sure what else, and 9500 miles. The dealer also has a new '08 4s with a sticker of $102K. From what I've read on the forum, I should be able to get at least a 10-12% discount on the '08. Figuring 10%, that would make the new '08 4s $92K. So we're talking about a difference of $27K.
Wanting to compare apples to apples. My understanding is that, all things being equal, the 4s cost is generally about $10K more than a 2s. So, if you subtract that $10K from the $27K spread between these 2 cars, you're only looking at a difference of $17K. $17K extra for a new '08 seems like a good deal compared to a car that is three years older.
One thing I failed to mention was that Edmunds and KBB both showed the value of the '05 to be in the mid $60s. I also don't know how firm the dealer is on his used car price. I thought he might have $55K in the C2s.
Any opinions as to which car is the better buy?
Thanks, Dave
So help me out. I looked at an '05 C2s that the dealer had priced at $65K. The car is seal gray, 6 speed, Nav, CPO'd, not sure what else, and 9500 miles. The dealer also has a new '08 4s with a sticker of $102K. From what I've read on the forum, I should be able to get at least a 10-12% discount on the '08. Figuring 10%, that would make the new '08 4s $92K. So we're talking about a difference of $27K.
Wanting to compare apples to apples. My understanding is that, all things being equal, the 4s cost is generally about $10K more than a 2s. So, if you subtract that $10K from the $27K spread between these 2 cars, you're only looking at a difference of $17K. $17K extra for a new '08 seems like a good deal compared to a car that is three years older.
One thing I failed to mention was that Edmunds and KBB both showed the value of the '05 to be in the mid $60s. I also don't know how firm the dealer is on his used car price. I thought he might have $55K in the C2s.
Any opinions as to which car is the better buy?
Thanks, Dave
Drifting
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,616
Likes: 35
From: Semiahmoo/Blaine, Wa
I'm not aware of many folks having issues with their 05 models, but I think if you can't get it for closer to high 50s then the other car is a better deal. Of course, you could check listings around the country and see if there are even better deals than there are at dealers, who always expect a premium. When I was looking for a used 07 Targa, I saw dealers start with prices in high 80s and low to mid 90s, and eventually lower the prices over the weeks to low to mid 80s. You need to decide what you think is the right price and be patient. There is lots of negotiating room in this market.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 10,213
Likes: 861
From: 01776
Hi Dave,
Welcome to the forum.
I think what Dan said is reasonable; however, there are TONS of 05 owners here that have not had any problems.
As to which is the better buy: probably the 05 with only 9500 miles since it is CPO and warrantied. Of course buying the new car (and I'm particularly partial to the AWD) lessens your risks of Lemonship.
Either way, welcome and keep us posted.
Welcome to the forum.
I think what Dan said is reasonable; however, there are TONS of 05 owners here that have not had any problems.
As to which is the better buy: probably the 05 with only 9500 miles since it is CPO and warrantied. Of course buying the new car (and I'm particularly partial to the AWD) lessens your risks of Lemonship.
Either way, welcome and keep us posted.
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
I wouldn't have a problem with getting an '05, but that price seems too high. There are tons of '05s going for mid-$50s.
As to your logic . . . why would one compare the cost of a new C4S to a used C2S? Why not compare the apples to apples by comparing a new C2S to a used C2S. It's not like there aren't a any CS2s at dealers.
As to your logic . . . why would one compare the cost of a new C4S to a used C2S? Why not compare the apples to apples by comparing a new C2S to a used C2S. It's not like there aren't a any CS2s at dealers.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,759
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From: The D
Avoiding the first year of a new model may not be a bad choice looking into the future however in hindsight I see no reason why anybody would still choose to avoid proven car. The only issue I've heard of is the suspension bushing being installed incorrectly. That can be checked out as one of the terms for buying that car. Some people may snivel about the lack of MP3 playability but if you truly want to play your music your probably want iPod connect which isn't available from the factory until '09. Other than that I know of no major changes in the 997s.
The wise choice is to buy the car that is best equipped for you. Most important is probably color with the remaining options to follow. I do agree that $65K is slightly high for the '05 and would probably shoot for $5-7K less.
The wise choice is to buy the car that is best equipped for you. Most important is probably color with the remaining options to follow. I do agree that $65K is slightly high for the '05 and would probably shoot for $5-7K less.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,570
Likes: 89
From: Austin
Welcome! There are a lot of good used 997's out there - you'll find the one you want at the right price. Not sure where you're getting info on dealers discounting 10-12% on 08's - seems pretty early in the model year for any discounts. Good luck.
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Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,027
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
I agree with Dan's concern but like others have said, the 05 isn't having problems. Go look at many of the problems the new M3 is having with that M-DCT (dual clutch) transmission. Now that's a problematic first year car!
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Joe Kucinski
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 883
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From: South Florida
My 05 has been absolutely bulletproof. I dont agree with Dan's "nuff said" comment when it comes to 911's. The 05 997 is not an entirely new car like the Audi R8 and doesn't introduce any type of cutting edge transmission.....the 911 has over 40 years of development and the 997 uses many of the same parts as the 996. The only issues I know of are some MP3 compatability problems with the radio and of some 05's having a rear bearing installed wrong (easily fixed).....my car had neither.
Anyway, I would have no issue saving some coin and getting the low mileage 05 w/ CPO....it is the same car as the 08 (sans 4 wheel drive). I would try to get it for $60k or less. Good luck.
Anyway, I would have no issue saving some coin and getting the low mileage 05 w/ CPO....it is the same car as the 08 (sans 4 wheel drive). I would try to get it for $60k or less. Good luck.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
From: Ex SE London now SW France
My 05 has been absolutely bulletproof. I dont agree with Dan's "nuff said" comment when it comes to 911's. The 05 997 is not an entirely new car like the Audi R8 and doesn't introduce any type of cutting edge transmission.....the 911 has over 40 years of development and the 997 uses many of the same parts as the 996. The only issues I know of are some MP3 compatability problems with the radio and of some 05's having a rear bearing installed wrong (easily fixed).....my car had neither.
Anyway, I would have no issue saving some coin and getting the low mileage 05 w/ CPO....it is the same car as the 08 (sans 4 wheel drive). I would try to get it for $60k or less. Good luck.
Anyway, I would have no issue saving some coin and getting the low mileage 05 w/ CPO....it is the same car as the 08 (sans 4 wheel drive). I would try to get it for $60k or less. Good luck.
uninformed gas bag
(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
Rennlist Member
(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,517
Likes: 188
From: Melbourne Beach
I'd have to agree with Dan also. Never under any circumstances buy the first year of a new model. Oops! Never mind, I did it twice.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 8,333
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From: Vista CA
early in the MY
??????????????
Facelifted 09s will be on the lots in September.
(ok, maybe not until Sep 30th
)08 MY new car sales are in the toilet.
(this according to a PCNA employee)
you should easily be able to get 10% off of a lot car.
good luck
Craig