996FourEss

As some of you may know, sold my 996 4S early last year on the occasion of moving to NY from Europe. Was back in Austria over the memorial day weekend and had the chance to use a brand new (2k) 997 C4 for four days. Observations versus the old 4S were, frankly, surprising.

OK, good first. New uprated interior, dash finish, white backlighting and digital speed in the rev counter binnacle all certainly plusses. Sure, it looks newer as well. But, and don't shoot the messenger, that was it. And, to be clear, these impressions were confirmed by the lady (who by the way is absolutely
supportive of my 997 4S FL deposit for Nov delivery).

Firstly, and a big one, brake feel. The 7/C4's brakes felt like I was driving a BMW. High assistance, highly responsive, but.... the old '6/4S had this incredible brake feel which could best be summed up through the warnings I would give first-time-driving-friends, "you need to push the brakes harder than you are used to or you will not stop". The "old brakes" were wonderful, they required a firm push, they did not feel like there was much assistance, and if you really pushed hard, it really stopped. Now, I know the old 4S had the turbo brakes, so tough comparison, but still. Also, with 19" wheels, the non-S 997 brakes looked a little puny. Now, I recall the 997S's brakes being better - this alone would be a reason for me not to buy a non-S. BTW, you may have noticed that Porsche increased the size of the non-S brakes in the facelift. Secondly, performance. OK, engine at 2k's (1,200 miles) still tight. That said, it really felt like it lacked "go" from 220 kmh and above. Having driven on the same stretch of road a few times (A8 Munich to Salzburg - a rather old autobahn, not that open and quite narrow) I had trouble getting above 250, it felt tight from 220 onwards, almost a little breathless. With the 4S, much more urge in the 220 - 270 range, and remember, the '6/4S was down 5bhp on the 997.

Next big one. Motor sound. The first thing the lady said is it sure did not sound like the lovely raspy tiger that the old one did (with sports exhaust). I know noise regs and all that, but the non sports exhaust motor is really a little flat sounding (did not stop me from dropping the windows in the local bypass tunnel in St Wolfgang on Wolfgang See where I was staying though). Also made me realize that I have not seen (or heard) a single sports exhaust 997 in NY (what does that say about NY buyers, not even gonna go there, but obviously not a lot of rennlisters)

Other gripes. I know it saves weight having the window switches in the door, but, they were so much nicer on the center tunnel - awkward to use now. Also, I am obviously old fashioned, but the switch to the electric key where you turn to the right and then it self centers in the ignition has lost some of the old magical connection with the engine (not what I would call progress).

OK, so not that constructive. Ket takeaways: I know the 996 4S has a bad wrap from the purists, but, honestly apart from all of the above, it is more or less the same car as the 997 C4, so could be considered a great bargain (precisely because of all of the above). Observations from the lady: "If we are going to get one, then yes, the all leather dash is a must. Also, essential that it is a "4S" not just a "S", and we absolutely need the sports exhaust." [Yes, I got lucky finding the lady]

Anyway, just my observations. Other notes: I felt great driving through a Lotus owners meet of 50 cars in the middle of the old town with the black/black C4. For all the gripes, driving up the Postalm (a small tolled pass road on the SE side of Wolfgang See) was wonderful, the car comes alive under power, and (shame shame) changing to first in the hairpins allows you to balance the rear in a wonderfully controlled slide (not enough torque in second to slide it, but these were tight turns). Can't wait for my FL 4S.

PeterC4

Interesting observations. I have a 996 C4S and I generally agree with the conclusions. To me, the brake feel of the 996 C4S is outstanding. In my drives of the 997s I couldn't agree more with you on the BMW brake comparison ( I have a new 3 series). I also agree on the exhaust sound in the 996 C4S, it just has this wonderful growl. In my drives of the 997 ( a friend has one), I find the shifter much lighter than the 996, almost Honda-like. My current C4S is a tip, but my previous 996 C4 was a 6spd and the clutch had a much heavier feel, which I had grown very accustomed too. I for one, really like the look of the 996 C4S. To me its a classic. Mind you the 997 handles exceptionally well and the interior is a much welcomed update. The 2009 911s promise to finally bring us into the modern world with blue tooth and voice control, and more horsepower. I hope a little "edge" is still in the driving character.

texas911

They moved the window switches to the door because that's where all previous 911's had them. They were just going back in the design department.

Alan Smithee

Not too much of a surprise...there is a reason the C4 coupe is by far the slowest seller in the 997 lineup.

Edgy01

It's clear you'r relatively new to Rennlist. It's here that you learn about the must-haves when ordering a 997. First off, you're comparing in a lop-sided fashion. You're comparing a broken in 9964S to a "2k" 997-4 9non-S). Everyone knows that the engines take some time to break in to their potential. Also, from the Rennlist you'll know that you must order the PSE.

Finally, why on earth a 4? You should go drive a 997S,--without the training wheels!

richc

I wish the 997 had an oil dipstick - other than that complaint, it's a much nicer ride than my 996 was. As I've said before here, of the 12 Porsches I've had since 1968 my '99 996 was the first one that was not better than than the previous one, which was a '95 993. In general, I've found they get better with every iteration - and that's incredible given they're amazing cars to begin with.

Cowhorn

Real interesting. Most of the gripes pertain to cosmetics and creature comfort issues.

I think if you look closely at the interior of the 997 you will see that it looks much more like the interiors of the 911, 964, 993 than the 996 does. The interior design of the 996 seems to be from somewhere out in left field compared to prior 911's. The 997 interior design is much more in line with the traditional 911 layout, and in my opinion, nicer than the 996.

I am surprised you didn't mention any perceived differences by you or the "lady" in the steering. I don't think you will find anyone who has owned a 996 and a 997 who will deny that the steering feel is better in the 997 than in the 996. Much less slop and play in the 997.

Then there are the power, torque, and reliability improvments in the 997 over the 996 to consider as well.

I am glad you like the 996 better, but a look beyond your perceived relative shortcomings of the switches, exhaust note, and what-not might reveal aspects of the 997 you and the "lady" didn't have time to appreciate.

Graygoose997

Isn't that the truth.
The good one's just keep getting smoother and sweeter.
Haven't had a German car yet where at 12-15 K I didn't say......oh yeah .

It's too bad the garage queens don't understand what they leave on the table when they finally sell.
Saving the good stuff for the next guy is just wrong.

996FourEss

Dan, need the 4 for winter driving ability as only have one car. Don't mind the flared hips as well, and Walter Rohrl has idenditcal times around the 'Ring in a S and 4S so don't suffer performance but agree does lose a little feel vs the 2s in the steering (although also feels more secure on the Autobahn in the rain).

Jim, I guess my point was more to the fact that other than cosmetic changes (and potentially reliability on the electronics side as you mention), there was nothing to seperate them, and actually, the brakes in the '6 4S were on another level. i.e. for all of its criticism, the old '6's, at least in 4S guise, may be a performance bargain that is currently overlooked.

AndreCT

a set of good snow tires will get you most anywhere in a S as in a 4S. I would not sacrifice the steering feel for 4wd. Just my opinion... of course ..

Nugget

He's in a "4." We all know that the 4s have numb and disconnected steering feel due to all the extra weight of the training wheels.

Vitamin_J

A Porsche is like a good wife. Love her, service her, respect her but don't you dare save her for the next guy.


Oh an 4's rock!

othomasjr

Yeah, I just got a crate motor in my '00 C2 and it is amazing how much slower it is than my old motor (before it blew up). Of course I haven't nailed it yet, but you can tell it's slower.