sandwedge

But was it ever done with a 911? Seems to me that every power boost of the 911 coincided with an increase in displacement, not just "oh we just tweaked the old package for another 30hp."

I'll pay $995 for 30hp with a smile on my face. In fact I'd pay twice that much and still smile but the warranty issue always looms around these things and I'm not ready to set $15K aside just in case my engine craps out and the regional rep tells me I'm on my own since the ECU has been tampered with. I'm sure the "unflash" works in theory but I see logistical issues. Engine failure usually means tow truck so I would ask for the disabled car to be transported to my house for the unflash and then to the shop? Best exclude roadside assistance from that operation.

My dealership is generally mod friendly so I'll talk to my service manager about this. If he's willing to do the flash with a written guarantee that it will have exactly zero effect on the factory warranty then I'll buy it along with many others I suspect.

sandwedge

As I said earlier, I'd go one step further and have the dealer install it and guarantee no warranty issues. One hour's worth of labor at $90/hr. Cheap insurance imo.

marine8541

[QUOTE=sandwedge;5068360]But was it ever done with a 911? Seems to me that every power boost of the 911 coincided with an increase in displacement, not just "oh we just tweaked the old package for another 30hp."

I think you forgot about the evolution of the 3.6 engine, it had three increases.

marine8541

Always the conspiracy theory, no he is a customer that just wanted to let people know how he felt. Now as to the caps? I don't know. I never knew that it was a prerequisite for a shill.

I only chimed in when I started to see incorrect info. Everyone seems to know how the DME works, how it is programmed etc, However there are only 3 companies that developed the technology on how to flash them and only one writes the full stock map correctly. All of the switching programs DO NOT have a true stock or original program. Once you use a trial version or get it flashed it is never at stock or original mode bit for bit again, period. This being said then they are all detectable in a binary read.

fast1

My dealership is generally mod friendly so I'll talk to my service manager about this. If he's willing to do the flash with a written guarantee that it will have exactly zero effect on the factory warranty then I'll buy it along with many others I suspect.

Your service manager is not authorized to speak for Porsche, so even if he gives you the guarantee, which is highly doubtful, it would be worthless. Moreover, if the provider of the ECU upgrade is certain that there is no chance that the mod will affect engine durability, why the promise that the ECU can be changed without the Dealer even knowing? Why the subterfuge?

Bottom line is that IMO an ECU upgrade only makes sense on turbocharged engines. NA engines typically do not gain enough of a power increase to warrant the price and risk.

clvig

sorry for using caps (cviles) i thought this was a place to talk not be graded on how you wright. i use softronics becuase he took the time out to explain to me about his ecu flash the other co. just talk to you like they are reading from a Q card , it is up to you on what you do to your car, all i was tring to do was help people with my feed back i wish someone did that for me i would have save a good amount of money.

mitch236

MDrums asked if your company has a written policy regarding Porsche detecting a modification of the ECU and you replied yes. Can you direct me to the contract that addresses your company's policy regarding what recourse a consumer has when the service rep decided to deny a warrantee claim due to ECU "issues".

My policy regarding ECU remapping is don't trust anyone. If you want cheap HP and are ready to have your warrantee voided, then go ahead. I've seen two cases of denied claims due to ECU "issues". Maybe you guys have a true undetectable product but the only way to find that out is to have your car at the dealer waiting for the rep to see if your warrantee is still in force.

cviles

I appreciate you are trying to be helpful. That's what makes Rennlist such a great site on the Internet -- there are a lot of very knowledgeable and helpful people who contribute here so that others may better enjoy their cars.

Regrettably, not everyone on the Internet is honest or helpful. On far too many sites I frequent, there have been people who shill for their products or services. Very quickly you start to recognize certain patterns and unfortunately, you fit the most common type right now. Internet boards like Rennlist are primarily mediums of the written word and, fair or not, poor grammar and spelling work against you in such an environment.

Don't let that discourage you though; stick around and contribute. Let us know about you, your car and what you love about it. Share your questions and get to know us. In time, how you express yourself will matter less than what you say.

sandwedge

I know that and should have been more clear. The regional Porsche rep. would have to be involved in the written guarantee as well which I give long odds of ever happening.

marine8541

Just for educational purposes for all. The PIWIS system went to a world wide system communication protocol a few months ago. This system automatically logs and checks data from the PIWIS testers . Prior to version 18 of this system one could check the DME for tampering,the check that was normalized for the industry was a CVN. This would pull a overall check sum of the given program and if it did not match up it was considered altered. The problem was that it showed in real time if the DME was tampered with. Many of the tuners were using this to alter and fool the check.

Post this version the check is not shown and every time a PIWIS is plugged into a Porsche it will automatically check for alterations on this system. When read the tech may say it is OK, however in reality it has already failed and been transmitted to the Porsche data base. The RM does not have any other special tool that will spot more than this. To sum it up,if you had any trial program , tuned program that was used in the car after this point and it was not stock "bit for bit" then it has already been flagged.

Since many do not seem to know or understand what is actually read, programmed or done with the control units I can explain further or not.

ibmiked

Scott,

I think you'll find that most of the skepticism about ECU flashing is due to the very information you mention. Most people are scared of warranty issues, and no other software vendor (at least that I have found in my research) seems to have such knowledge of the ECU and Porsche's practices.

Not knowing you, or having done business with you (yet), I must confess that you seem to have the type of understanding that all of us here could learn something from. It's fear of the unknown, and the lack of confidence inspiring information from ECU re-mappers that will forever plague those of us considering such an upgrade.

Perhaps it would be helpful to re-iterate your credentials here for the board. I'm sure once we understand who you are and where your information comes from, you'll push many fence-sitters into becomming customers. I'm PM'ing you now to get some questions answered, but by far the information you've offered about the DME leads me to believe you aren't making false claims.

Thanks for explaining this,

-Mike

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fast1

Post this version the check is not shown and every time a PIWIS is plugged into a Porsche it will automatically check for alterations on this system. When read the tech may say it is OK, however in reality it has already failed and been transmitted to the Porsche data base. The RM does not have any other special tool that will spot more than this. To sum it up,if you had any trial program , tuned program that was used in the car after this point and it was not stock "bit for bit" then it has already been flagged.

This is not what most people who had the ECU wanted to hear. Interesting information. Thanks for sharing.

KeninBlaine

Well put, Mike.

I would feel a little better if more detailed information could be provided on the improvements, such as actual dyno graphs showing the power and torque over full rpm range and compared to stock versions. Telling me I can increase by HP from 355 to 389 is one thing, but where is it happening? I have requested such graphs but not received anything.

Scott's explanation of CVN, PIWIS etc. revealed to me how ignorant I am on the subject, and how much more knowledgeable he is. But because of my ignorance, I wasn't sure how to interpret it his explanation. It still sounded to me like detection is possible, if not now, possibly in future if improvements are made to assist Porsche in detecting ECU tampering.

My natural sense of skepticism suggests that anything that seems too good to be true is either not true, or else has some kind of downside. If I can get the same power increase from $2000 worth of remapping and exhaust improvements as X51 would provide for $16000, I feel there must be a catch. But I want it! So show measurements to prove the performance improvement. Testimonials from customers about the great improvement in power are nice, but somewhat as meaningless as the testimonials on night time info-mmercials. Please provide factual information to explain why it isn't too good to be true.

ibmiked

So correct me if I'm wrong, to be safe we should revert to the factory flashed ECU any time we plan on having the car serviced? If the PIWIS works the way you described, even a tech not out to snag you for having modified the ECU can inadvertantly have you car flagged if he or she hooks it up to the shop computer?

Thanks for the clarification.

-Mike

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mitch236

I understand the whole PIWIS connectivity issue but what I am referring to is something that was wittnessed at a dealer when a friend thought his engine needed replacement. The shop put in a warrantee claim on a "clean" car. The regional rep shows up with a computer that nobody in the dealership had ever seen before. Nobody in the shop (including the manager) was allowed to watch the rep check out the car. Within 5 minutes, the rep walks up to the manager and informs him that the ECU had been tampered with and the warrantee was voided. Now the manager is dumbfounded since they sold the car as a CPO and I can attest that nobody modified anything with the ECU (I've been down that road before). What kind of computer is the rep using that nobody in the dealership has? Why wasn't the ECU modification picked up during the CPO? Please educate me.