Soulteacher

Here ya go...

silotwo

+1 you nailed it - it is "just a car" and it is hard to believe that anyone could attempt to twist it into being any more than that. It almost sounds like someone wants to believe that their financial status somehow makes them an elite human being and perhaps is annyoyed when they percieve that others can be in possession of the same material stuff while being percieved as non-elite. Just like shelter is shelter, even a "ratty house" is someone's home.

You guys have me smiling because when I decided to buy the p-car it was the fulfillment of a self promise to someday own another 911. 30 years went by, but when I bought it I did NOT buy it to impress anyone. In fact, I was pretty shocked at the attention driving a "Porsche" brought about. As word got out as to who owned "that Porsche" in the lot, I had phone calls from around the country congratulating me and even had a few folks wrongly assume that I cashed in my stocks. I remember now telling my wife that I didn't get it, because it is "just" a car.

Enjoy the ride.

dD/dt

So is it "just a car," or the fulfillment of a 30-year promise? It sounds like your story makes Marty's point perfectly.

Anyway, (and I mean this) congratulations on 30 years of deferred gratification and financial planning, and for buying the car without regard to what others would think.

MartyB

Wrong! You incorrectly make the assumption that one who has the means to responsibly afford the car has no passion for it. I took no position regarding whether the haves or the have nots possess more passion for the brand. I think people at all levels of the socio-economic scale are capable of being passionate about Porsche. I also think the opposite is true, meaning that throughout the scale there will be a sampling of those who are not interested in the Porsche heritage or the model nomenclature, etc., and for whom the car is a mere status symbol. I think Jerry Seinfeld is an example of an owner who can by whatever he wants but is a fervid Porsche fan. Do you think he is seeking your approval or respect with his collection - I seriously doubt it. You are the one who turned this thread into "who wants it more" or who "is a better champion of the image", which I think is an irrelevant and futile tangent. For those who don't like the subject, I guess changing the subject is an easy way for them to give their 2 cents . . . or, you could start your own thread.

mauijim

Soulteacher,
Thanks. Cute commercial, I hope it sells Porsches. My guess is the boy is about 10 years of age. At that age I wanted to fly jets and drive race cars. At age twenty, I bought my first Porsche with a bank loan which fits the time frame given in the wrap up. However, I confess that I don't make financial decisions or moral judgments based on TV commercials like some forum brethren do - eh, MartyB.
MartyB,
I didn't know Jerry Seinfeld was appalled that people who lived in "ratty houses" or earned less than half he did, owned Porsches. My bet: he doesn't care how anyone pays for their Porsche - your friend Jerry is quite comfortable with the size of his bank account, he doesn't need to show it off. Maybe you're watching too much TV and should take your passionate self outside and live a little. Then you may discover that everyone who buys a new Porsche, whether for cash, loan or lease, is "upside-down" with it when the car leaves the dealership.

silotwo

As tempted as I am to remain silent, it would be sort of dishonest as you are giving me credit for something that simply isn't totally true. Honestly, it is just a car. It was not a goal that I set a plan to attain, nor is having the car the result of astute financial planning. The deferred gratification is more from my father's teaching of self denial, we avoided wants and ONLY dealt with absolute needs. (check this out, I grew up without ever having hair shampoo because we didn't NEED it, soap was soap in my father's eyes, so we washed our hair with bar soap)

Again, I am sort of laughing because I had the car for almost two months before I finally let my Dad know about it and showed it to him. I am 52 years old and when I visited my Dad in the nursing home I would park the car where he couldn't see it from his window. Then one day while visiting I had him outside and casually wheeled him to the end of the lot and to the car. I thought he was going to bitch me out, instead he just looked at the car and then at me and said, "boy, that is a nice car, I know you always wanted one of these, good for you."


Sometimes life just happens.

MartyB

Like talking to a rock . . . except a rock has better analytical reasoning skills and is more willing to stick to the debate. Better stay in the shallow end of the pool Maui. I'm done.

dD/dt

The statement I'm arguing against is that it's "just a car." Obviously it isn't. Have you ever heard of someone fulfilling a 30-year-old promise to one day buy another Ford Crown Victoria? Does a 52-year-old hesitate to show his father a new Chevy Cobalt?

Of course not. This has sparked a huge debate on here because a Porsche is anything but "just a car." It's faster than it needs to be, more exclusive than most other cars, and substantially more expensive. Any car will get you where you're going. And for a little less than half the price, a Subaru STi will do it about as fast as a Porsche.

So why are we here? Because everyone on this site feels some connection with the German engineering or lineage, loves engines in the back, enjoys the sound of a boxer 6, loves that the cupholder is a source of resentment from the engineers, or something that Porsche alone provides.

Frankly, I think a lot of people on here are uncomfortable with the fact that they've spent so much more than they needed to on a car, just to get the car they really wanted. That's too bad. What's the point of having money if you never indulge in stuff you just want and don't need? Look at people's other hobbies on the 'other woman' thread. Boats, planes, motorcycles, sound systems, trains... all sorts of things people on here are passionate about. The one thing they have in common is that there are less expensive ways of traveling or listening to music, but nothing quite as fulfilling.

Others on here seem pretty defensive about the means by which they purchased a Porsche. I can only guess it's because they couldn't really afford it in the first place. That's too bad also, because deferred gratification -- waiting until a car, boat, plane, or stereo doesn't jeopardize your family's well-being -- is what makes these things so satisfying. And if it really were 'just a car,' nobody on here... not one of us... would be driving one.

Anyway, I did enjoy your story, and I'm glad you had the chance to share your excitement about the car with your dad.

Cheers.

RoninM5

If it were just a car, then this thread wouldn't exist, since there would be no forum users...

Nobody would care to talk about it.

Chris from Cali

True dat....

Cars are the only non-living thing I get emotional about. I could care less about fancy shoes, single-malt scotch, etc. I love what I drive. When I bought my Carrera S, I literally pinched myself. It was an amazing feeling. When I buy my next "great" car, I hope to have the same feeling, if not better. IT'S ONLY MONEY PEOPLE - get over it.

Soulteacher

I have the feeling that you guys are talking in circles and that you really mean the same thing, but arguing from different positions.

What I take away from the discussion:

(1) In the greater context of life (the big big picture), a Porsche is just a car. But for a variety of (good) reasons we typically don't live in the greater context of life; rather, we have a micro-existence and - as such - a Porsche is something special to most of us.

(2) Different people have different thresholds for different types of risk. Among other risks, the "instant gratifiers" accept the risk that a purchase at this point may have financial implications in the future, while the "deferred gratifiers" accept the risk that they may not live to enjoy what they've waited for. Each of the two has a low tolerance for the other's type of risk. Since it is based on tolerance for risk, there is no universal right or wrong: rather, it's a 2x2 matrix in which each one can be right and each one can be wrong. And since I'm sure we can find lots of examples for each of the four possible outcomes, it's kind of useless to discuss which approach will be the best (as we really don't know yet what will happen in our particular case).

Chris from Cali

Very well stated.

geof

Back to Maslow.



I remember one realization of the pyramid that had a level between Ego and Self Actualization called Aesthetics, or something like that. The Wikipedia entry of Maslow's pyramid places aesthetics into "growth needs", which is where Self Actualization is also located. The bottom four needs are placed into "deficiency needs". Presumably (I am not an expert) a deficiency need is a need that must be fulfilled or else there is hurt in some form, while growth needs are in some ways icing on the cake of life (my words).

I agree with previous posts that a P-car does help with the bottom four needs, especially the Esteem need. I would say, though, that this is not the case for everyone. Yes, some people would buy a P-car to show off their money or communicate "I have arrived". But others buy one for more their own personal reasons- they like to drive it, they like the experience it brings, and for those who track, they like the challenge of mastering a new skill. Maybe they even like to look at it themselves, even if they don't care whether other people see it.

Considering this, these cars can be a part, a healthy part, of fulfilling the growth needs. Some of you may have seen the thread showing pictures taken from your car. This is my favorite P-car picture thread ever, since just looking at the pictures I recall my own experiences soaking up the beauty around me, coupled with all the P-car sensations we love. Sunset seen from a mountain road = Good. Sunset seen from a mountain road, framed by a spirited drive in one of these machines = God. To me- this is why I bought the car- to bring more pleasure and more beauty into my life.

As for the highest need of all- Can owning such a car help out with pursuing "opportunities for learning and creativity, learning and creating at a high level"? Sure. People who lead creative lifestyles often need new experiences to refresh themselves. Sometimes creative breakthroughs happen not after a lot of hard work, but after relaxation or "down-time". (Read the book "Flow" by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi- creative personalities often oscillate between hard intense work and periods of slow pace) My experience is that a long drive in a car like this can contribute to that, just like a hike through the woods or a day climbing rocks for other people.

Is Esteem a factor for me? Very little- only my family and a select few car nuts know I have this car. Almost all my friends don't, and all but one of my business colleagues and employees (the exception is a car nut) don't know about it. My neighbors know but we try to downplay it. I'll talk about it with people on this forum because, I hope, you all "get it" and aren't prone to jealousy! I prefer to get my sense of esteem from work and business related accomplishments- there's nothing like a happy customer to make me feel good in that manner.

Now, as for where Porsche is going with their marketing- I saw in the WSJ today an article about the Robb Report expanding into China. The fastest growing market for Porsche, if I am correct, is developing nations that have turned into economic powerhouses. Please correct me if I am wrong, everyone, but I bet that a "need" in many of those countries that Porsche is trying to fulfill is the need for Esteem. They have worked hard, succeeded, and want to have a piece of the "prosperous life" that they see Americans (and other first-world countries) enjoy. I often wonder if the reason Porsche hasn't raised prices in the US is that they want Americans to keep driving these cars, so that Chinese will see Americans driving them, and want their own so they can be like Americans. If this sounds silly, consider that Chinese developers are building "authentic" French villas, complete with either reproduction or real French antique fixtures (for example), to sell to Chinese wanting a part of that life. So I bet that Porsche's "place" on Maslow's pyramid has a different distribution there.

Whatever Porsche is trying to "sell" in these markets is interesting- it gives insight to how these cars will be developed in the future. If so, Porsche will continue to evolve to be a luxury car maker rather than a pure sports car maker. They will try to maintain the "mystique" and "heritage", hopefully in a way that keeps us enthusiasts happy in the future.

Benjamin Choi

this type of "financial" discussion borders along the incendiary nature of discussing politics and religion.

because we all come from such diverse backgrounds it's going to be tough to compare apples to apples so why even try to start something meaningful around a topic that is inherently amorphous in nature?

i live in a small condo. i'm single. no kids. late 20s. health and happiness are important to me and my family and my friends. 911 is a luxury toy. we live in a rich nation. i was lucky enough to be born in this time and space and hope to learn and give back and be wise.

the end.