Porsche's position on Maslow's Hierarchy?
01-02-2008, 08:46 PM
#76
01-02-2008, 10:37 PM
#78
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"A fool and his money are easily parted."
"Rather the pain of discipline, than the pain of regret."
"Anything that we can do to raise personal savings is very much in the interest of this country"
Alan Greenspan
"Rather the pain of discipline, than the pain of regret."
"Anything that we can do to raise personal savings is very much in the interest of this country"
Alan Greenspan
01-04-2008, 05:40 PM
#80
I think if you spend ANY time worrying about things over which you have no control, your neighbors weight or the helmet less motorcyclist, you will not lead a very happy life IMHO. Be aware there a many people who think Porsche owners have NO NEED for their expensive play toys and would love to legislate them out of business!
01-04-2008, 07:14 PM
#81
Warning: this may be controversial to some.
As I read threads I tend to glean (unsolicited) information on people's financial status: talk of 2nd mortgages, car loans, ratty looking house in the background of pictures.
My take is that a Porsche is a want not a need and it takes a backseat to food, shelter, clothing as well as other fiscal security items such as college and retirement funding. Basically, I think that if you can't write a check for your car without the slightest amount of pain, you can't afford it. Having said that, it seems like some are “stretching” to obtain their dream.
Am I just overly conservative, or do others see this the same way?
As I read threads I tend to glean (unsolicited) information on people's financial status: talk of 2nd mortgages, car loans, ratty looking house in the background of pictures.
My take is that a Porsche is a want not a need and it takes a backseat to food, shelter, clothing as well as other fiscal security items such as college and retirement funding. Basically, I think that if you can't write a check for your car without the slightest amount of pain, you can't afford it. Having said that, it seems like some are “stretching” to obtain their dream.
Am I just overly conservative, or do others see this the same way?
If your theory was pure, then we need to question the priorities that our own govrnment assigns to their reasons for our national indebtedness. Perhaps war should be a cash up front only deal.
For me, I was raised to be frugal and to deny myself of my "wants". As I watched my Father's "savings and security" be rapidly depleted as he entered nursing home living, I had the chance to reconsider what I had been taught and what the value of money might really be. I am actually grateful that I am now "living" more and worrying less.
Did I pay cash in full for my P-Car? No I did not. Do I have enough money (cash lin the bank) to pay the balance in full? Yes I do. Could I sell the car below market value and clear the loan (home equity - tax deductible interest)? Yes I could.
And in the end, does it matter to me how anyone else chooses to live so long as they don't steal from me or otherwise harm my family? Not in the least. Too much living to do of my own to spend my energy sitting in judgement of how anyone else chooses to live.
All this said, I do like your post. I enjoyed it more than debating air cooled vs. water cooled or placing odds on when my engine will grenade.
01-05-2008, 12:57 PM
#82
Instructor
As much as I enjoy reading the threads on this forum, I've never felt as "poor" as I do when the topics seem to go toward the "financial status" end of owning these cars.
At 48, I purchased my first Porsche - a brand new 2006 997 c2 cab. Kids' college is paid for, house in the D.C. suburbs is close to paid for, and no one was impacted negatively by my decision. I thought of the car as a great looking machine that satisfied the desire I had to finally have a convertible and a great sports car at that.
Then I read some past threads here that talked about how not buying an "S" meant one could only afford a non-S and thus he was somehow a bit lower in the prestige scale. Or in reading that the size of your option list was clearly proportionate to the size of your wallet; it's easy to get turned off by those threads and comments.
The car is great and I really enjoy driving it. And when I see another one on the road, I feel like we're both part of a club that is based on the commonality of the car and I don't ponder the other owner's net worth.
I know all about depreciable assets, debt ratios, etc. Hell, I bought the car to give me the joy of not thinking about that crap for a while. I bought what I bought because that's what I wanted without much thought about resale, whether the lack of an "S" badge or full leather would mean less presitge. I really just didn't care. And if rationalization was necessary, I knew I had kept my last two cars for ten years each and that the 997 was really only about $35-$40K more than had I gone out to buy a fully loaded high end Acura. Amortize that difference over 7 -10 years and the car didn't seem that much more expensive.
This site has been great when I get the advice I seek for what to do when you see a drop of oil, or how to get the most out of the ownership experience. It's great to have a place to go for honest answers and shared experiences. I dislike it when it becomes a place to chatise or judge others because they are "spending too much" or "not spending enough."
I'd rather talk about the difference in performance on my summer tires when I use them on dry days where the temperature is around the 45 degree mark - that to me is more interesting and useful. That was originally going to be my thread for the day.
Just my observation, for whatever little it may be worth.
Kevin
At 48, I purchased my first Porsche - a brand new 2006 997 c2 cab. Kids' college is paid for, house in the D.C. suburbs is close to paid for, and no one was impacted negatively by my decision. I thought of the car as a great looking machine that satisfied the desire I had to finally have a convertible and a great sports car at that.
Then I read some past threads here that talked about how not buying an "S" meant one could only afford a non-S and thus he was somehow a bit lower in the prestige scale. Or in reading that the size of your option list was clearly proportionate to the size of your wallet; it's easy to get turned off by those threads and comments.
The car is great and I really enjoy driving it. And when I see another one on the road, I feel like we're both part of a club that is based on the commonality of the car and I don't ponder the other owner's net worth.
I know all about depreciable assets, debt ratios, etc. Hell, I bought the car to give me the joy of not thinking about that crap for a while. I bought what I bought because that's what I wanted without much thought about resale, whether the lack of an "S" badge or full leather would mean less presitge. I really just didn't care. And if rationalization was necessary, I knew I had kept my last two cars for ten years each and that the 997 was really only about $35-$40K more than had I gone out to buy a fully loaded high end Acura. Amortize that difference over 7 -10 years and the car didn't seem that much more expensive.
This site has been great when I get the advice I seek for what to do when you see a drop of oil, or how to get the most out of the ownership experience. It's great to have a place to go for honest answers and shared experiences. I dislike it when it becomes a place to chatise or judge others because they are "spending too much" or "not spending enough."
I'd rather talk about the difference in performance on my summer tires when I use them on dry days where the temperature is around the 45 degree mark - that to me is more interesting and useful. That was originally going to be my thread for the day.
Just my observation, for whatever little it may be worth.
Kevin
01-05-2008, 01:28 PM
#83
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kevin, you're not alone in your observation. I'm certain there are way more members unconcerned with such trivial discussions than those who thrive on them. The original intent of this thread might've been genuine and even thought-provoking, but it has since descended into a measurement of personal egos. Like someone has already stated, this is an enthusiast forum, so I choose to focus on that rather than the negativity that comes about every so often.
I've been a fan of the 911 since childhood, and I love knowing there's a great community that shares my passion. Sadly, however, not every owner purchased their 911 for the same reasons. Be that as it may, just be happy with who you are and don't concern yourself with how others view you.
I've been a fan of the 911 since childhood, and I love knowing there's a great community that shares my passion. Sadly, however, not every owner purchased their 911 for the same reasons. Be that as it may, just be happy with who you are and don't concern yourself with how others view you.
01-05-2008, 04:39 PM
#84
Racer
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Orange County NY
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Warning: this may be controversial to some.
As I read threads I tend to glean (unsolicited) information on people's financial status: talk of 2nd mortgages, car loans, ratty looking house in the background of pictures.
My take is that a Porsche is a want not a need and it takes a backseat to food, shelter, clothing as well as other fiscal security items such as college and retirement funding. Basically, I think that if you can't write a check for your car without the slightest amount of pain, you can't afford it. Having said that, it seems like some are “stretching” to obtain their dream.
Am I just overly conservative, or do others see this the same way?
As I read threads I tend to glean (unsolicited) information on people's financial status: talk of 2nd mortgages, car loans, ratty looking house in the background of pictures.
My take is that a Porsche is a want not a need and it takes a backseat to food, shelter, clothing as well as other fiscal security items such as college and retirement funding. Basically, I think that if you can't write a check for your car without the slightest amount of pain, you can't afford it. Having said that, it seems like some are “stretching” to obtain their dream.
Am I just overly conservative, or do others see this the same way?
The general lack of diplomacy in the OP is why the wheels came off so quickly. It's hard to say the thread is about Maslow's heirarchy when it's really about people's financial decision-making, with a few flames (ratty-looking house) thrown in.
Still, I agree with the premise. While I don't see it as a problem to "stretch" once in a lifetime to buy a Porsche (or whatever), I'm pretty appalled at the number of people making half what I do driving BMW's on lease, and racking up credit card debt to make the lease payment. I don't have my 997 yet, but I'm going to order it later in the year when I can afford it without sweating. That's the only way I could enjoy it. It's going to be the reward for working hard.
01-06-2008, 05:28 AM
#85
Intermediate
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I look back on the times that I made a financial "stretch," these decisions were scary for me; but they had at the root a passion or gut feeling for what I was doing. Yes, I took a risk and "pushed the envelope," but almost all were good ones - they bettered my life financially, emotionally, and spiritually. And after all, it was only money that I was risking.
The measure of life is not a bank account or a car. But it appears that for the OP and others this is not the case. For them it is appalling that some one, who lives in a "ratty-looking house" or makes less than half they do, can lease or borrow to own a Porsche. Instead, I think we should cheer and hold in high regard those whose passion is so strong that they are willing to stretch, to risk, to push the envelope. These are the folks who I want as friends and business partners. I think it is unfortunate that Porsche actually sells cars to those who wait and save their pennies - it tarnishes the brand.
It's only money, folks. But the risk takers, the stretchers, those that push the envelope - now that's something special.
The measure of life is not a bank account or a car. But it appears that for the OP and others this is not the case. For them it is appalling that some one, who lives in a "ratty-looking house" or makes less than half they do, can lease or borrow to own a Porsche. Instead, I think we should cheer and hold in high regard those whose passion is so strong that they are willing to stretch, to risk, to push the envelope. These are the folks who I want as friends and business partners. I think it is unfortunate that Porsche actually sells cars to those who wait and save their pennies - it tarnishes the brand.
It's only money, folks. But the risk takers, the stretchers, those that push the envelope - now that's something special.
01-06-2008, 09:03 AM
#86
Rennlist Member
Besides, a wise man once said: there's always someone with more money, there's always someone better looking, there's always someone with more free time, there's always someone with a faster car, and there's always someone with a bigger d*ck.
I have found this to be very true,.... except of course for the last point.
I think my life fundamentally changed many years ago when I realized that the only person I would ever compete against was myself. As cheesy as it sounds, I have been a significantly happier person ever since.
01-06-2008, 10:01 AM
#87
Racer
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Orange County NY
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great points Dave.
Going back to the OP (if that was ever the question), it seems that driving a Porsche fits primarily into the Esteem Needs stratum of the pyramid, with some reach into Love and Belonging (just look at this site). It probably lays firmer roots in the Safety stratum than most cars, but not by much. It should reinforce this level, since driving a Porsche generally means that you're not on the verge of losing your house.
I really love these cars, but self-actualization has nothing to do with material possessions.
Going back to the OP (if that was ever the question), it seems that driving a Porsche fits primarily into the Esteem Needs stratum of the pyramid, with some reach into Love and Belonging (just look at this site). It probably lays firmer roots in the Safety stratum than most cars, but not by much. It should reinforce this level, since driving a Porsche generally means that you're not on the verge of losing your house.
I really love these cars, but self-actualization has nothing to do with material possessions.
01-07-2008, 12:24 PM
#88
Regarding the rich and not-so-rich, they need different dreams. For the latter, myself at 26, my first Porsche was a financial accomplishment and a dream realized. Maslow's needs triangle was nothing more than a test question in college. As for the rich, they need to dream non-materialistic dreans. I knew a kid in college in 82, whose Dad bought him a new red targa Carrera. He accomplished nothing to get his Porsche. Poor bastard.
01-07-2008, 01:19 PM
#89
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If that comment was intended to be humorous - I missed it and I apologize in advance. Otherwise, that might be the single most stewpidest (in keeping with the content of the comment) remark I've read on ANY discussion forum . . . ever. Have you seen the wonderful Porsche commercial where the kid goes to the dealership and sits in a 911, asks the salesperson for a business card and says "I'll see you in 20 years", or something to that effect? He doesn't say "let me see if my parents will co-sign", or "maybe I can fudge my age/income and swindle a bank out of a loan", or "hey, anyone can qualify for a lease since it is really just renting - if I use all of my allowance and then regularly steal from my Dad's sock drawer and don't eat lunch at school, I could afford a lease payment". I think a lot of 911 owners can relate to that commercial, and I think for many, the 20 years or so between the realization that they really, really want a 911 and the time the dream is fulfilled is taken up with obtaining an education, working hard and saving for their dream. How could that buyer possibly tarnish the brand relative to a Johnny come lately who decides one day he needs some status among his peers and a Porsche will do just fine, goes into debt up to his eyeballs for the car and the bastardization of the car that inevitably follows, further ensuring that he will be upside down when he HAS to sell it?
Regarding your criteria for suitable business partners, it sounds like you have a preference for folks with no money and no proclivity for earning money. Good luck with that!
01-07-2008, 06:00 PM
#90
Intermediate
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MartyB,
Yes, that comment was partially made in jest, but stupid - no. Obviously, you missed the point. Over the years the Porsche brand has become more of a way for one to show-off their bank account and less of a sports car for the passioned - the fanatic, if you will. It's folks like you who advise the correct purchasing procedure in order to protect the new image.
I haven't seen that commercial, so I can't comment on it, but where do you get your information regarding folks being forced to sell a Porsche on a lien or lease? I don't know anyone who has ever had to do so, but I probably associate with more financially responsible people than you do. And, BTW, thanks for your heartfelt wish of good luck, but I really don't need it - I've done quite well with the risk-takers and the passioned. They don't wait 20 years to fulfill a "dream" - especially when that dream is just a car. They move on.
Yes, that comment was partially made in jest, but stupid - no. Obviously, you missed the point. Over the years the Porsche brand has become more of a way for one to show-off their bank account and less of a sports car for the passioned - the fanatic, if you will. It's folks like you who advise the correct purchasing procedure in order to protect the new image.
I haven't seen that commercial, so I can't comment on it, but where do you get your information regarding folks being forced to sell a Porsche on a lien or lease? I don't know anyone who has ever had to do so, but I probably associate with more financially responsible people than you do. And, BTW, thanks for your heartfelt wish of good luck, but I really don't need it - I've done quite well with the risk-takers and the passioned. They don't wait 20 years to fulfill a "dream" - especially when that dream is just a car. They move on.