mdrobc1213

Was on suncoast Porsche's website looking for an oil filter change kit and came across this Cold Air Intake for the 997. And you know what happened next...ye I thought upgrade and added it to my shopping cart.

http://e-partssales.com/Merchant2/me..._Code=997maint

Anyone have any experience with this kit as a DIY and/or performance gain/losses? Any problems with the exhaust note or loudness after/post intall? I think it should be a quick and easy DIY but will head those who know and have tread before me. Don't think I'd need to take it in to have the car hooked up to the Porsche tester afterards corrrect?

By the way I have a Carrera S 997 coupe with an AWE exhaust installed already so I would asume this would be compatible and the ECU would adjust itself accordingly. Correct?

Anyway thoughts or experience(s) are welcome from all!
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Evo V-Flow Ram Air Induction - 997

Quantity in Basket: none
Code: INTK997
Price: $595.00


Transmission: Manual
Tiptronic


Quantity:

Evo's "Internal Venturi Technology" fresh air induction systems are made specifically for the 3.6L/3.8L engines. Our system delivers more power and torque while completely isolating the air filter from the engine for a denser intake charge. Power is increased by about 10 - 12 wheel HP/TQ (Scroll down for dyno tests). When combined with our specially designed computer upgrade, power is increased to more than 25 HP!
Carrera 997 & 997S 2005+. Patent Pending

8haggis

Firstly, I don't have any experience installing this system you have ordered. I do appreciate the picture, though and can recommend one thing:
Spend your $595 on something else.

I happen to be an automotive engineer who designs air induction systems, (OEM, not aftermarket,) so I know a little of what I speak. I don't work for Mahle or Porsche, so I also don't have any bias in this particular case. I benchmarked the 997S air induction system a couple years back and it is a very well designed unit. In reviewing this system, it does not even come close to the quality or engineering sense of the original unit. The reason I say this for a few reasons:
1. The orientation of the filter element is backwards for ideal flow. It appears that they are re-using some exisiting tooling on a conical filter element. A majority of your intake airflow is coming from the left side. In order to get to the clean side duct connected to the throttle body, it is going to have to make an abrupt turn to the left after running to the right through the smallish inlet duct. The OEM system does not do this. The reason is that any time air turns, it creates restriction.
2. The large opening on the top of the "airbox". What is their intent of this opening? Typically, for these aftermarket systems, they design the box to be missing one side to create a large, low pressure drop opening for great gobs of incoming air to enter the engine. The main problem with this idea is that it sucks in very hot underhood air which is less dense than the cooler air at the location of the original inlet duct. As a result, less engine power. That is why you hear about "cold air intakes" which draw air from under the car or in the front fascia. (This fixes the hot air problem, but adds a new problem, in that lots of water can be these locations and get drawn up into the induction system, which can result in engine failure.) Now, back to my original question of this point, what is the purpose of this opening? If you look at the design of your rear deck-lid, you will find that there is no opening in the lid in the location of this large opening in the airbox. Therefore, when the lid is shut, you are either sealing the opening to a closed panel in the lid which further exasperates the poor design of the inlet duct, or your are not sealing and instead drawing in that hot air that robs you of horsepower.
3. Filtration Efficiency! This is a common trick of aftermarket systems to give you more horsepower. The OEM sets a very specific filtration efficiency requirement which protects the engine from damage over the life of the vehicle. (Filtration efficiency is a measurement of the amount of dust captured by the filter compared to the amount of dust fed to the filter. The higher the efficiency, the better the filter.) The downside of very high efficiency is pressure loss, so to easily create more horsepower, all you need to do is lower the efficiency. The downside is that if you live in a dusty environment - you will be slowly destroying your engine.
Now, with what I have said, you might be asking how the dyno numbers were produced. Would they be faking the numbers to sell their product, or is this engineer making the long post completely off his rocker?
I wouldn't go so far as to say that the numbers are faked, they are probably real performance gains - on that one day, on that one dyno set-up. I would be asking myself things such as: Was the rear deck-lid closed during dyno runs? Was the engine up to operating temperature? Was there any extra cooling fans blowing on the engine during tests? For both runs?
If the answer all of the above questions are such that the test was realistic and consistent run-to-run, then the filter element they have is likely a very low efficiency element. This equals significant engine damage over time.
Hey, Porsche ain't stupid. They made they airbox like they did for a reason. Play with the exhaust all you want, the engine is done using that air, but don't mess around with the incoming air unless you are leasing.
Okay. I'm done now.

points

8haggis....very interesting post and informative as well. what is your opinion of the champion airbox that sells for 2500.00?

911Dave

I have some limited experience with aftermarket filters but have been reading about others' experience for years. There are 2 things I have learned:

1. Aftermarket filter suppliers almost universally advertise unrealistic HP gains for their products, and they use fancy terms like "induction system" to convey the impression of sophistication, when it's nothing more than a filter and cheap plastic tubing.
2. Real world dyno tests almost universally show that filter setups like the one in question yield no appreciable gains by themselves. They do, however, sometimes change the sound character of the engine.

Another point is that no one would notice a mere 10-12 hp increase in a 355 hp engine.

cviles

I'm not an engineer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

But my first question when looking at that diagram is: It's gonna be a bitch to get that filter out to clean and re-oil (it looks like a K&N). I see the ring clamp to hold it in place, but not much room to wrestle the thing free and back into place.

Oh, and everything else 8haggis said. I was gonna say that too.

8haggis

Points,

I am not familiar with the Champion unit. If I come across any information, I will let you know.

mdrobc1213

To the engineers in the group all I can say is WOW....thanks 8haggis for the education in your post. I did contact Suncoast and ask them to hold that particular part of the order while I do some more research however. It isn't that important to have it and if it IS a you say 8haggis; it's more important to preserve my engine life and function.

One question then...how does this system and cold air intakes I see differ in general from the intake in the X51 powerkit system which seems to mention or do the same things (i.e. larger airbox and intake..etc)? And what is the difference 8haggis from this system which below which seems to use the stock airbox and conncectors?

With all that above in mind since I have your attention guys then what would be the benefit of using an advanced airfilter like the K&N one over the OEM then when I do my oil change? Some guys are all for K&N and swear by them religiously but from what you say above 8haggis and cviles what is the point then? Efficency or cost or NONE?

Thanks
Rob
===============================================
K&N Air Filters K&N Stock Replacement Air Filters

by K&N


$70.95

Airflow to your engine is one of the most critical areas affecting the performance of your vehicle and one of the easiest areas to upgrade. Original equipment air filters on new vehicles are generally very restrictive. This is due to their paper construction that actually limits engine breathing. That's why we recommend K&N, the leader in filter technology as proven by their heavy use in both on and off-road racing.

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http://www.automotion.com/productpag...de+996+%26+997

Cold Air Upgrade 997
Cold Air Upgrade 996 & 997

$225.95

+11.8 Horsepower And Significant Torque
Bolt On Replacement
Increase Airflow By 20%
Power that you can hear and feel "COLD AIR Upgrade/enhancement kit" makes all stock 997 cars with stock mufflers/no modifications sound as if you upgraded your 997 to a mild performance exhaust. Simple direct replacement BOLT-ON upgrade for all 997 stock air boxes. Install under 20 minutes with Tox screwdriver.

4thporsche

The EVO intkae was the first mod I did on my car. I paid $350 off of eBay and suggest you look there and save some $. About every 3 - 4 weeks one will show up.

The mod is very easy. When cleaning the air filter (doing it today) it is easier just to remove the entire assembly. I have done this several times and can have it off in 10 minutes.

Performance impressions..... you'll hear the sound of the intake. Makes more of a swishing noise. Initially, before I did my other mods, I ended up taking the EVO intake off because of the loud resonance above 6000 rpm. I put the EVO intake back on after my last mod which was the plenum (also have GIAC flash, Suncoast headers and Fabspeed exhaust) and the resonance was gone. The car sounds awesome! By itself I did not notice any performance improvement with the EVO intake. It's hard to believe the performance numbers they quote based on my experience but when I added the plenum (RSS version not the cheap one that Suncoast has) it seemed to pull all my mods together and I could really feel it. I plan on adding the 200 CEL cats in the next couple of weeks and I am expecting good things with that mod.

If your going to do the EVO intake only I would advise against it. In conjunction with other mods, yes. Also, other than the GIAC flash ($995 locally) I have not paid anywhere near to retail for my mods. Be opportunistic and pick things up off of eBay, group buys and various classifieds and you will save yourself quite a bit of $$ and the hit won't be as bad if/when you sell them. Other than the GIAC flash I installed everything myself.

Hope this helps.

8haggis

Okay, first let me answer the easy question on the K&N filter system.
You see the red hose, that appears to be a red silcon hose with a fiber reinforced mesh inside. They have installed this duct and plugged up the port to the resonator. Typically, we use this type of silicon hose when connecting the turbo to the intercooler because silcon has very good high temperature resistance. (It doesn't cool the air, it can just be hotter without falling apart.) The stock part is a Santoprene duct with a port to the resonator. So, by changing this part you do 2 things:
1. Change the color from black to red.
2. Eliminate the hemholtz resonator thereby increasing noise for a certain bandwidth.
I believe that this is what they mean when they say "sound as if you upgraded your 997 to a mild performance exhaust". I don't remember the exact frequency to which this resonator is tuned to, but I would doubt it is lower than 200Hz. In my opinion, noise above 200Hz does not sound like performance exhaust. (I could get into the science of that, but I think it might be a bit dull read.) Resonators are added to induction systems to eliminate undesirable noises caused by natual frequencies resulting from the shape of the induction system. Basically: Intake = quiet, Exhaust = loud
As far as increasing airflow from this change, I would think about less than 1%.
Now, the filter: I would suggest you google something like "truth about K&N filters" or something like that. There is an excellent study someone did on filtration efficiency and dust holding capacity of these guys. Not so good. Also, the oil which is needed to make these filters do anything, well, the mass airflow sensor upstream is not durabilty tested with this oil since the original filter does not have it.
Now, about the X51 system. This is an OEM designed system and your safest best for performance and durabilty. If you decide to go with an X51, be sure that your warranty is not affected by the use of the X51. It shouldn't be, but best to be sure.
I can't really speak details to the X51 system as I have not seen it out of a car, but from what I see in picutres:
There are 2 inlet locations to the fitler box and I would think that there are changes to the deck-lid to accomodate this change.
There are also 2 exits from the airbox which indicate the usage of 2 seperate filter elements. This will provide a performance gain by reducing the velocity in each filter element and allow for a more porus media without lowering efficiency. There will also be gains through the ductwork due to lower velocity, but some of this gain will be offset by the more difficult path.
These changes alone will vastly improve the system performance.
Why is this not done on the base car? Cost. This system with 2 elements and 2 mass airflow sensors is a much higher cost system. Also, the inlet noise will be a bit higher. This is not desireable, but with the performance gains and focused group of customers for this system, this is a compromise which can be made.
Well, I tried to keep it short and sweet and still ran on into a long post.
Hope that answers your questions.

mdrobc1213

8haggis
Thanks. Sounds like other than some cosmetics most of the above are not performance oriented and won't produce much of a gain or change in the car. I assume that a mod to an X-51 on a base car would be cost prohibitive so I think if anything upgrading the headers may be the next best mods leaving the remainder stock since I have the AWE cat back exhaust and tips already. Maybe a GIAC flash too.

Thanks.

8haggis

I agree and think that makes a lot of sense. Better way to spend those hard earned $$$$.

Good luck and happy driving!

robbonds

i have eco, giac and evo headers with pse

the dyno showed zero gain


save your cash

J1SD

8haggis...good read. Thanks for the info.

adfsouth

+1

gweedo911

I've been driving my C2 w/ GIAC, EVO Flow & PSE for a couple of years w/out any problems. If you are too concern with the design or the filter, then you should see a cup car intake......... that thing is wide open