Riz

The Audi R8 has been getting good reviews but the performance data seems inconsistent with the power/weight of the car. EVO magazine has it lapping faster than 997 GT3 and even the Gallardo. The R8 weighs over 3500 lbs with about 420hp - midengine with quattro. Something is weird about all the numbers I'm seeing in all the car magazines. Does anyone else think so?

Rave

I've seen one in Switzerland and it looks better on the road than in the magazines and on TV. It's also much smaller than I anticipated. But would you want to be known as a R8 driver than a Porsche driver? It's new so it will get a lot of attention. What is more worrying, Porsche no longer invests in motor racing today. As such, the R8 has the racing pedigree. What does Porsche do with its profits? Unless it ploughs some into motorsport, it will milk the brand until it becomes irrelevant.

draxa

I saw my first one in UK last weekend; it's a stunning looking car! Very pert and well-proportioned. I love the short rear overhang. Even the 'blades' (which worried me a bit) look good.
I think BMW and Aston will be worried about this. Porsche too - but we're all crazy here and we'd stick with a Porsche whatever......
I'll have my R8 in silver with dark blue blades.


Oh, one last thing; a personal observation only - I'm not crazy about the rear view. Too many fins and stuff for me. A bit 'Flash Gordon' if you like.

stom_m3

I saw one up close at the Toyota Long Beach Grand Prix. It was sitting next to a Ferrari F430. There was no comparison. The F-car was gorgeous and made the R8 look blah. My .02. I have pictures at home that I'll post later for comparison.

steve

axhoaxho

Porsche AG uses its profit to buy control stake of Volkswagen AG stock, and VW owns Audi.

blake

Good point. Reminds me of when GM owned Lotus in the early 1990s (not sure if they still do) and put a Pontiac steering wheel on the Esprit. I am not looking forward to the day that Porsches are made of VW and Audi parts. Makes me nuts for the "old" days when a car manufacturer could afford to be independent, host a racing program and build quality (not plastic) product.....

-B

One last comment - with all that plastic in the car, how come vehicle weights are actually going UP?

Soulteacher

They also share their profits with each employee (shareholder or not). In 2005, for example, each employee received EUR 3,200 (USD 4,350), in 2006 each employee received EUR 3,500 (USD 4,760).

These bonuses are paid each October, so I don't know this year's number yet.

rfedele

safety features, crumple zones, air bags, electronics etc

MagicMtnDan

The R8 is beautiful. It may not impress sitting next to a Ferrari (as one poster said) but the TT doesn't either (IMO).

The R8's performance and capabilities surprised me when I first read about it. Now the outstanding performance reviews and very positive comparisons to the TT continue with what I believe is an alarming consistency.

What's not surprising are the reasons this has happened:

1. Porsche has always been very slow to improve performance because (IMO) of (a) greed and (b) lack of competition. Why offer more power/performance when they didnt' have to?

2. Porsche has been keeping the 911 model as their pinnacle car for too long and now I think it's caught up to them.

3. The 911 and Boxster look dated. The 911 is based on an old design and has been refreshed but it's still quite dated looking ("classic" is great but it's 2007 and it's still Porsche's pinnacle car). The long overhangs on both the 911 and Boxster don't help in this regard.

4. Mid-engine handling is where it's at. Boxster, Cayman, CGT and now the Audi R8 - enough said. Porsche is still hanging on to the 911 rear engine design and it's not good enough (IMO) for their pinnacle car. Read the reviews and you'll get the message.

I love Porsche but I would rather have an Audi R8 than a TT and even a GT3 (which has been my "dream Porsche").

I feel like Porsche has allowed itself to get left behind because of success and focus on other vehicles (more profit). Porsche has become fat with success and it's been happening for a long time. Their "strategy" of milking the 911 and keeping it as their halo car is a losing strategy.

The mid-engined design is clearly the way Porsche should be going. Keep the 911 models for those who must have them. They're outstanding cars and Porsche can continue to milk them for all their worth.

But take some big steps (leaps) forward and get back to what you used to do best. Give the Boxster some upgraded models and let the car shine. Or, create a newer mid-engine car leaving the Boxster, Cayman and 911 lines intact. Keep making the money Porsche - I'm all for you to succeed and remain a very profitable and viable car company. Just give us your best.

Shame on you for allowing Audi to spank your TT in almost every way! If I were you I'd be embarassed - I think you were caught with your pants down and now I think you need to play catch-up!

Bob Rouleau

Every time a new supercar is announced, the press goes wild for it. Remember the Ford GT? I look at lap times with skepticism. I am sure that an unskilled driver can make an R8 lap faster than a 997TT. On the other hand someone who knows how to drive a 911 will outperform the R8 easily since the cars have the same weight and the 997TT has more power and torque. Driving a 911 is a skill that needs to be learned but very rewarding once accomplished.

Porsche does invest in racing - check out the GT2 class at any LeMans event (Porsche won it again this year). As to the so called superiority of the mid engine, Porsches have consistently beat them year after year. The rear engine is not all bad you know. By the way, Porsches win in spite of various weight and or intake restrictor penatlies imposed to make the Porsches slower!

Is the RS Spyder(LMP2) not a race car?

Keep the faith!

Best,

clutchplate

There are times I want to drive a refined car and times I want something a bit more raw. From what I've read about the R8, although it appears to handle very well it leans towards the refined side of the spectrum.

I love that fact that the 911 isn't a car you can drive it with your brain switched off. It still feels like a sports car to me. If I were to get another car for fun, it probably wouldn't be an R8, but something like the Lotus Elise, that has even more bare bones rawness than a 911.

MagicMtnDan

Thanks for your dialogue. I'm a former Boxster S owner and am looking at my next purchase with delight. I must admit that if I can, I will very seriously consider the R8 assuming they are available without paying a premium.

My dream car (non-exotic) has been the GT3 but now I wonder.

Look, you all ask the same questions I do:

* Why doesn't Porsche put more power in the Caymans?
* Why does Porsche insist on the 911 as their halo car?
* Why doesn't Porsche develop a "baby CGT" if they don't want to put the Caymans above the 911s?

Porsche is certainly capable of regaining their position in the industry regarding performance. I submit to you that they need to do it with a new mid-engined car since they clearly won't put the Cayman ahead of the 911s.

A "baby Carrera GT" is probably the answer and they could charge whatever they want for it but I'd suggest it start at $100k and go up from there.

How about it Porsche? When you're done making money how about making your sports cars perform better (give them more power) and bring out a new car that is state-of-the-art without being exotic (ala CGT)?

10 GT3

Check out the August Car & Driver where they run the R8, GT3 and Turbo on the same track. The R8 is defnitely not in the class of a GT3. The R8 exactly matches the specs of the regular non-X50 996 Turbo: power, weight and both with AWD. From seeing all the magazine articles on it it does actually run the same numbers as the older 996 Turbo. The best time for the R8 on the Nurburgring is also exactly the same as the 996 Turbo, so I am not seeing anything wierd with the numbers. The only thing I do see wierd is that I've seen multiple articles where the new 997 Turbo just doesn't perform that well on the racetrack and gets common comments about quirky handling that were never present with the earlier 996 turbo. Keep in mind that in some of these articles they were comparing $110-120K R8s to regular C4s and C2 S models that cost $30K less. Yes the R8 outperforms these cars, but I am surprised out how narrowly it outperforms a regular Carrera S. The price of the R8 is also the same as the 996 Turbo from 6 years ago, so I commend Audi for building the car equal to the 911 Turbo from 6 years ago.

Audi priced the R8 exactly where it would go if it were a Porsche with the same performance. This creates the first issue: it isn't a Porsche. Ferraris are rarely the best handling or performing cars, but they are still Ferraris and command the price as such. Audi will never be successful trying to sell on an equal level playing field with Porsche. I was excited to hear about the R8 when they were proposing a price in the $80's, near the price of the Carrera S. With a base price higher than a GT3 and less performance, I have no interest. Being only $10K less than a new 997 turbo, it is barely a compromise to not spend the extra money. What will be interesting is where they will price the V10 version? At the same price as the 997 Turbo, it could be interesting. If they choose to price it higher, not so interesting.

As far as the whole mid-engine versus rear engine discussion, there is absolutely no evidence to prove an equal weight/hp mid-engine car is better than a rear engine car. By simple physics a mid-engine car has an advantage under braking and turn-in while a rear engine car has an advantage for power delivery and corner exit. This was well proven in the Sebring 12-hour race where the Ferrari 430 only beat the 911 Cup by intentionally trying to run the GT3 off the track. With both cars having similar power, weight, gear boxes and brakes it was the rear-engine car that had the fastest individual laps.

caf

You reflect my thinking on Porsche very well.

This was driven home for me last weekend when I took a demo Cayman S out for a few laps on our local racetrack. I simply loved the dynamics of the Cayman. I would have been on my way to the dealership to buy one the next day except for the disappointing lack of punch from the engine. True, the Cayman still performs very well, but if you're used to the torque of a 911, the Cayman feels weak.

Why can't (won't) Porsche give me what I want--a mid-engined car with 911-like (or better) power? We know why, and that's what's makes me sad about Porsche right now. Of course, people have been making your points for years, and Porsche is obviously aware of the same, but they continue to make money (lots of it), so there is little motivation for them to address these shortcomings.

SilverSteel

I don't think there's any arguing the power plant is something to behold, given Audi's commitment to racing it shouldn't be a surprise. I believe all Porsche lovers will actually benefit from this in that Porsche may raise its game. I'm looking forward to the new Porsche models.

My opinion is that the car is ugly, but it's a start.