Why to NOT Powdercoat Wheels
#1
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Why to NOT Powdercoat Wheels
We had our CVR PCA meeting last night and the Northeast regional BBS representative gave a presentation. Of particular note was the damage that powder coating does to a wheel if it's done outside of the initial manufacturing process. In other words, if adding clear coat, anodizing, or even powder coating is factored in when the wheel is made such that the chemistry is planned out, then it's not a problem. But people that take delivery of a wheel and then send it out for powder coating are going to see a 30% degradation in the structural integrity of the wheel. The way I understood what he said - it was like heat treating something in the manufacture and then "undoing" it by baking on the powder coat. I didn't quite understand how that differs from heat cycling the wheel on the track - I just don't know much about the powder coating process.
Anyway - I had never before heard of negatives of powder coating metal and even wonder if this applies to things like roll bars. Just a heads-up to all...
P.S. He rolled his eyes and said "Honestly, I don't know why anyone wants black wheels in the first place - if it's to make the car look racy, it isn't working because all race cars have silver / aluminum colored wheels..."
Anyway - I had never before heard of negatives of powder coating metal and even wonder if this applies to things like roll bars. Just a heads-up to all...
P.S. He rolled his eyes and said "Honestly, I don't know why anyone wants black wheels in the first place - if it's to make the car look racy, it isn't working because all race cars have silver / aluminum colored wheels..."
#2
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Originally Posted by RonCT
We had our CVR PCA meeting last night and the Northeast regional BBS representative gave a presentation. Of particular note was the damage that powder coating does to a wheel if it's done outside of the initial manufacturing process. In other words, if adding clear coat, anodizing, or even powder coating is factored in when the wheel is made such that the chemistry is planned out, then it's not a problem. But people that take delivery of a wheel and then send it out for powder coating are going to see a 30% degradation in the structural integrity of the wheel. The way I understood what he said - it was like heat treating something in the manufacture and then "undoing" it by baking on the powder coat. I didn't quite understand how that differs from heat cycling the wheel on the track - I just don't know much about the powder coating process.
Anyway - I had never before heard of negatives of powder coating metal and even wonder if this applies to things like roll bars. Just a heads-up to all...
P.S. He rolled his eyes and said "Honestly, I don't know why anyone wants black wheels in the first place - if it's to make the car look racy, it isn't working because all race cars have silver / aluminum colored wheels..."
Anyway - I had never before heard of negatives of powder coating metal and even wonder if this applies to things like roll bars. Just a heads-up to all...
P.S. He rolled his eyes and said "Honestly, I don't know why anyone wants black wheels in the first place - if it's to make the car look racy, it isn't working because all race cars have silver / aluminum colored wheels..."
#3
Originally Posted by RonCT
P.S. He rolled his eyes and said "Honestly, I don't know why anyone wants black wheels in the first place"
#6
Now you tell me!! I just got my wheels done. My only choice is to to compensate for the 30% degradation by slowing down another 30%. On a more serious note, has anyone had long-term experience with said wheels, or is their a resident physicist that could ponder the question.
#7
Makes sense. Other than changing the alloy contents, heating and cooling (duration, rate, techniques) are the major way the characteristics of metals are manipulated. Casting or forging a wheel is a one-way "baking" process aimed at a specific result. Try reheating a cupcake and expecting it to be the same when it cools.
Try straightening a bent cast bronze deck cleat by (re)heating it; tap the heated tang with a hammer and it will snap off .
Try straightening a bent cast bronze deck cleat by (re)heating it; tap the heated tang with a hammer and it will snap off .
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#9
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Did some searching and found a powder coat site with a FAQ that said normally 350F-400F. That's definitely hot enough to overage some aluminum alloys.
Alstoy, I'd opt for driving 30% faster and risking 30% less time on the road.
Alstoy, I'd opt for driving 30% faster and risking 30% less time on the road.
#11
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Originally Posted by wdonovan
Did some searching and found a powder coat site with a FAQ that said normally 350F-400F. That's definitely hot enough to overage some aluminum alloys.
Many OEM's powder coat their wheels, including BBS (http://www.bbs-usa.com/index.php?id=676), Mercedes, etc.
This topic has been covered here before, please read this: https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-944-951-968-forum/262853-powder-coating-wheels.html
#12
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Originally Posted by bleucamaro
This does reach a temp to age the aluminum, but a 45 minute cure is not long enough. Most alloys take 5-8 hours to age at this temp.
Many OEM's powder coat their wheels, including BBS (http://www.bbs-usa.com/index.php?id=676), Mercedes, etc.
This topic has been covered here before, please read this: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262853
Many OEM's powder coat their wheels, including BBS (http://www.bbs-usa.com/index.php?id=676), Mercedes, etc.
This topic has been covered here before, please read this: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262853
#13
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Oh damn, I missed the meeting!!!
As for powder coat temps, I would think the short duration would not make too much of an issue. I'd say just like heating them up at track events for that duration, but maybe not as high.
Besides, I would think that both OEM and aftermarket wheels would include a full disclaimer or other "warranty void" if powder coated.
Never heard of long term problems.
Deanski
As for powder coat temps, I would think the short duration would not make too much of an issue. I'd say just like heating them up at track events for that duration, but maybe not as high.
Besides, I would think that both OEM and aftermarket wheels would include a full disclaimer or other "warranty void" if powder coated.
Never heard of long term problems.
Deanski
#14
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Those temps for that duration can't possibly affect the metal's crystalization. Unfortunately, Porsche has moved to pressure cast wheels away from forged for the most part and they're inherantly less strong than the forged,--the forged having much larger crystal structures because of their cooling period. Powder coating possibly could weaken the aluminum wheels but suspect that is really something that would only be an issue for competition wheels,--not for street applications. I think this issue has come up just to cover someone's behind if abused.
P.S. Checked with some of my engineers and they can't figure out why, with those temperatures, it could be a problem.
P.S. Checked with some of my engineers and they can't figure out why, with those temperatures, it could be a problem.
Last edited by Edgy01; 04-26-2007 at 04:49 PM.