Carcam

I posted this question on the turbo board with no response. Has anyone done the factory delivery and then drove around Europe for a couple weeks? I will be picking up my 997 T in June and don't know where to drive after... I have only been to England and Paris so the rest of Europe is unfamiliar. I appreciate any advice.

Soulteacher

Dan (Edgy01) is our resident European picker-upper. There are also a few threads you can search for that could give you additional ideas, such as https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/297574-euro-delivery-after-action-report.html.

If at doubt, I would post in the OT forum because a bunch of people have spent their vacations in Europe and may have to offer some advice.

geof

Euro delivery is on my list of things to do as well. One thought my wife and I had was to go down to Italy, visit family in Torino, and head west to the Italian and French rivieras and then Provence. Edgy01's advice will be heeded on the trip through Switzerland. We're thinking of May or early June (2008)- so that the weather is pleasant but the crowds are not there yet. I've been on that road before- as a passenger in a VW bus- and it is certainly scenic. However I've read that the driving in that region is crazy even by Italian or French standards so I wonder if it might be risky to take a new 997 in that region, especially for someone who has not driven in Europe before.

eifel997

Hi carcam,

My recommendation would be to drive from Stuttgart to the Lake of Constance (in German called „Bodensee“), than trough Switzerland to Italy. The problem in Switzerland in June could be, that the most scenic routes in the Alps (the alpine passes like Stilfserjoch) are normally closed till end of June due to snow (altitudes up to 2500 meters (app. 8000 feet)). So if you can make the tour in July, snow conditions are even better. I’ll spend two weeks in Switzerland beginning of August (in the eastern parts of Switzerland) to give my new baby the opportunity to run a few alpine passes.

In June I would recommend the northern parts of Italy (just make sure that your theft insurance covers Italy). Especially the upper Italian lakes (Lago Maggiore, Lago di Como, Lago di Garda and even the small ones) are worth a visit. Also visit the northern Italian towns (Verona, Milano, Carmona, Mantua, Parma, etc. etc.), they are beautiful.

Also Germany is worth a visit. Go to the Nürburging to drive on the “Nordschleife” (and visit me nearby); go to Aachen (with the famous Cathedral, built around 800 a.c.) and Cologne with the Cathedral and fabulous museums (and a famous beer, called “Kölsch”, unique, only brewed there!).

If you have more concrete plans, just give me an e-mail, probably I can give you some tips.

Best regards
Rolf

geof

Rolf- This is useful to know. Thank You. Are there any mountain passes that would be open in May or June, or at that time are we pretty much confined to traveling through tunnels instead of mountain passes?

Renn 951

When I did Euro delivery three years ago for my Cayenne S I used the Porsche Travel Club to handle all the tour arrangements. They can customize the itinerary to suit your desires, map out the routes for you, and they handle all the hotel reservations. It's not cheap, but they get you into 4-5 star hotels that you probably couldn't get into on your own for a short stay. You can find links to the Porsche Travel Club on the Porsche USA website.

Here's a link to my report on our Euro Delivery experience:

Euro Delivery Report

tkids

Did Euro Delivery about a year ago. I spent 3 weeks..

I started off in Stuttgart and went to the Black Forest. Took some back roads over to Baden-Baden(Spa town)

http://www.carasana.de/home/en/index.html

From there south to Freudenstadt(Great brewery in town, great food). South toward Freiburg. Then East toward Lake Constance. Drove the north shore. Then jumped on the Autobahn North A96, nice stretch. Went East at Memmingen. Went south on the 16 to Irsee(great

monastery/brewery/hotel)(Has one garage spot, perfect!) Went

East via backroads to Lake Amersee to Andechs

Monastery/Brewery(gorgeous area, views). Then off to

Aying(Brewery/hotel/okay parking) Take the backroads, if you

have NAV, select 'avoid Highways', some of the roads were like a

go-cart course, through farm country!

Went south to Bad Wiessee and started working our way East.

Into Austria where gas is cheap, so much the Germans fill up

before driving home!! If travelling on Austria Autobahn you will

need to get a Vignette toll pass(gas stations). We worked our

way near Bad Reichenhall and went south to Lofer(great

bakery/hotel "cafe konditorei dankl" as you enter first cut off

into town(street parking,safe) I asked the hotel, they told me

Austrians like to look, but not touch! Took a detour to Kitzuhel,

not sure if I would do that again. Then off to the small town of

Zell am See(quiet at this time of year, nice lake town). We

continued south to the town of Fusch at the bottom of

Grossglockner pass. Stayed in a B&B before you enter town "no

name just Pension/Chalet. Carport for car. Owner is a Log home

maker, often contracted to the USA. Next moring up the Pass

$35, hope the weather is nice. Doesn't open till May!

http://www.grossglockner.com/news/ Might want to work your

way to Salzburg(beautiful city) from Bad Reichenhall.

We went to Lienz and on to Cortina(no biggy). The roads out of

Cortina to the west were amazing! Off to Selva Val Gardena /

Wolkenstein, to a great hotel with garage.

www.hotelmaciaconi.com Family run, quiet place, with Pizza next

door! Go to the grocery next door, the friendliest grocery

employees I have ever met!! 200 grams of prosciutto is a must!!!

Next we took off out of Italy, sorry we did. Should of gone to the

Lakes(Como etc.)

We shot north like a bullet to Mosel Valley Wine country, nice and

quiet in May. We then worked our way to the Nurburgring and

stayed at the trackside Dorint Hotel. Accor hotel.

http://www.accorhotels.com/accorhote.../gb/nov/5417/f

iche_hotel.shtml Took a couple of laps around the track. 2 in

the rain which was a blast, no one on the track except for two

tour buses and me a C4S on a wet track, fun!

We worked our way to Bamberg, great little town.

Hope this helps. Not sure if you are a beer drinker, but I love

beer and driving, but never mix the two, so I found a guide of

Micro Brewery Guest houses, where once I parked it the party

began. Great thing is most towns serve local beers from the

immediate area.

http://www.braugasthoefe.de/cms/core/index.php?lang=en
click on BeerFinder to list B&B, Beer and bed!!!


Just a few quick tips.

-Oil is expensive and hard to track down. 28 US dollars a litre, so

you might want to "check-in" some if possible. I found it at an

ESSO Autobahn gas station.

-When picking up your car, have Porsche program in your NAV if

you opted for it the pick up point, so it is easier to drop it off!

-If you opted for NAV, try to get the Strassenatlas that Porsche

gives to non Nav people. Great scale of Germany.

Austria/Switz/Italy too! Nice to have something to bring to the

room at night.

-I enjoyed some of the Autobahn in Germany, but it seemed

crowded, should of got up at 3AM for a ride. Really liked the

backroads, during break-in period.

See links below for info in write up!

Dan would have good info on going deeper in to Italy.

Enjoy!

Scenic german rides:
http://www.germany-tourism.de/ENG/de...germany/master

_tlfstrasse.htm

Nurburgring for Dummies(not you, me)
http://www.heiser.net/documents/nurburgring/

Michelin map online:
http://www.viamichelin.com/viamichel...hme/MaHomePage

.htm

http://www.kloster-andechs.de/englisch/kloster/

http://www.hotelzurpost-andechs.de/

http://gettingaroundgermany.home.att.net/autobahn.htm

http://www.alpineroads.com/passstatus.php

http://www.irsee.com/cms2/index.php?...=23&cat=2&sub=

eifel997

Hi geof,

to avoid any misunderstanding, the roads across the alps in Switzerland are open in May/June; and if by occasion there is fresh snow above 2000 m (and that easily can happen in early summer) you can take the tunnels (like the Gotthard tunnel) ore the railways (like the railway tunnels to cross Lötschberg, Furka or Albula for example).

But if you would like to give your Carrera the opportunity to run some of the most scenic routes (for me a must would be the Umbrail (2503 m) followed by Stilfserjoch (Passo dello Stelvio, 2750 m, open normally beginning of June till November) leading from Switzerland to Italy) my recommendation would be to do this end of June till end of September. Than the road conditions are best for a nice ride up and down the pass (best to do it in the morning and avoid weekends).

There is a nice website for the motorbike touring enthusiast (www.alpentourer.com) or www.alpen-journal.de (unfortunately in German, and if you click on “Lagebericht Alpenpässe” you can find the actual information for the alpine passes in Switzerland, France, Italy, Germany and Austria (“gesperrt” means closed, “frei” = open)).

Don’t hesitate to contact me via e-mail for more information.

Best Regards
Rolf

Carcam

Thanks so much for the great input! I am going to get a map of this part of Europe and start marking point of interest. A friend just returned from Northern Italy and his rental car was broken into. The thought if this happening to my new Porsche makes me nervous (but I know it could happen anywhere). I could never talk my wife in to this factory delivery before. Now that my son and I are doing it and we're getting all this information, it sounds good to her...but not good enough to ride in the back of a 911 ha ha. If all goes well this time, maybe next year we can pick up a 4 seater and plan a good family trip. Thanks again! It's still 3 months away but I will post my route, photos, and experience to share.

Edgy01

I see that tkids and others are chiming in with their experiences. Recommend your delivery no earlier than the middle of June to increase your odds of better weather. Going too late and your'e competing with the European holiday schedule (everyone is off then!)

I picked up my cabriolet on 13 June and spent nearly a month over there, starting in Germany, running down to Bavaria, Austria (Salzburg) , Gmund, and along some back passes to St. Moritz and then down to Cernobbio, on Lake Como, past Milan, Firenza, Rome and Napes to the Amalfi Coast and Positano. I went as far south as Salerno.

Soem basic advice if you're not really familiar with Europe or don't speak at least some German,--

(1) Europe is smaller than you think. To rack up the miles to get your break-in miles you have to spend at least 3 weeks over there. You also have to plan on driving,--a lot. Going down into Italy helps with that. Alternatively, you can run the Italian and French Riviera and go to Spain and return. I logged about 3200 miles in those 21 days. I didn't drive every day.

(2) Swiss passes have many opportunities for scenic vistas and great drives. Keep in mind that most Europeans now see the Swiss Alps as merely in the way between them and their Italian beach vacations. Thus, they have been building tunnels to shorten that trek. It's not what we want, however, right? Although Goddard Pass is beautiful, it can be extremely busy and backed up. There is nothing worse than being in a Porsche and sitting at idle as you attempt the pass. Go for the odd ball passes that are off the beaten path. Avoid the major ones. By June you will probably not have weather affecting your route.

(2) Make sure you have the navigational system--I think you mentioned that you're ordering a Turbo,--so it should be included. Porsche AG will loan you a European DVD for the nav system for the duration of your trip. It is invaluable over there no matter how good you are with European roads and traffic. If you want to avoid sitting at the side of the road with a Michelin map out trying to figure out what you did wrong learn the nav system in the Porsche. It's traffic avoidance system is the best. There is nothing like it in the USA,--frankly, because everything is different there from the States. It will get you through most traffic backups (Stau) quickly,--but keep in mind that if you get yourself into a box canyon there are few options!

(3) Europe, although small, is also too big to see it all. Focus upon maybe 8 destinations during a 3 week stay instead of 10.

My destinations (nights) included:

Stuttgart
Heidelberg
Garmisch
Salzburg
Sils Baselgia, CH
Cernobbio. IT
Montecassino, IT
Salerno, IT
Alessandria, IT
Zermatt, CH
Kaiserlautern
Heidelberg
Stuttgart

I made reservations at several of the destinations, but also kept the schedule open with no reservations so that I maintained some degree of flexibility in my travels.

When it comes to security in Europe you have to use common sense. Believe it or not Germany was the worst. I planned places in Italy that I knew would be secure and never had a problem there. For example, staying in a small town in the foothills of the alps at a bed and breakfast will pretty much keep your car safe,--no one will know it's there at a b&b. For major hotels they usually have very secure parking either underground or well guarded.

Language. Keep in mind that the only place you can function if you only speak English is Germany,--and probably Holland. English is not compulsary in their grade schools so it can be a little tough there,--I was lucky and found some vacationing Germans!) France,--well, it's France. Most regions of France are "French only" if you get my drift. (Don't even THINK of trying German in France!)

PM me for details. I've been slowly working on an article for Porsche Panorama to be published on European delivery and vacation.

Soulteacher

Dan, that's too funny. Kaiserslautern? What's in Kaiserslautern other than a mediocre second-division soccer team? Ha ha, just pulling your leg, but most Germans would probably tell you there's nothing to see. Because, there isn't, right?

One question: Why did you think that Germany was the worst in terms of security? I haven't spent as much time as you over there since I left 13.5 years ago, so I'm really just wondering.

spiderv6

I wondered that too. I lived there for several years and found it uber safe. Same story for Switzerland. Italy, well ok, the north can be a little rough but nothing you need to worry about that much.

I don't think anyone should be over worried about security in Europe (at least the parts we are talking about here). Big cities are big cities so be sensible just the same as you would over here and you will have no issues.

And a word about passing through Switzerland - in the middle of summer thats exactly what most people are doing - passing through the major routes to get to Italy. It's a nightmare. It has taken me the best part of a day on several occasions to travel what normally takes 3 or 4 hours. Be prepared for major major traffic through the tunnels or better still avoid it completely!

helispud

There was an article about Euro delivery in the BMWCCA's magazine "Roundel" a few years ago. If you're interested PM me with your fax number or address and I'll dig it out and send you a copy.

Edgy01

Thanks for the suggestion on BMW's roundel article. I have been working on mine but have so many things that get in the way!

I was prepared for issues with security in Italy so I did everythng smart there,--high security parking, and never leaving it in anything that could be construed to be a tourist parking lot (like at Pompeii--I left it at the hotel in Salerno and took local transportation). In Germany, on the second night I had the car, it was keyed on the driver's door, outside the home of friends who live in a very nice section of Heidelberg. (Mostly doctors and other professionals--but no garage!!) I figured it was done by a young male German, probably 19-25 or so. The irony about all of that is that we're bringing them business,--to help their economy. They just don't get it. My friends (who I was staying with) were absolutely shocked and upset but I didn't let it bother me. I've owned more than my share of Porsches before and know the drill with that sort of jealousy,--and another reason I bought a solid (non-metallic) color. What upset me more was Porsche AG's attitude about it when I returned the car. They immediately cited the coverage of their underwriter and attempted to say that they never experienced this before with a Euro delivery. They told me to have it repaired in the States which sort of surprized me. When the car arrived in the states I took it to my specialty shop and they did an amazing job,--as I knew they would. I never got upset about it and knew that it would be repaired properly. It's the factory's attitude that po-ed me most. It will be in my article. (My own insurance company, who I wanted to underwrite my time there, was going to insure it with lesser deductible for a lot less money than Porsche's. I ultimately made the Euro Del insurance underwriter pay up, even with the deductible. I didn't cut any corners,--even with 1000 Euro deductible. They still got stuck!

I went to Kaiserslautern to visit a friend who works near Ramstein AB. It also gave me an oppotunity to get caught up on my laundry, etc. at the base (being military-retired). I can only say that the look on the German military guards at the USAF base was priceless! I'm sure they were trying to figure out which general I was!

Germany is becoming typical of other Euro countries,--significant polarization in the financial classes, especially with the influx of eastern europeans into their economy. As such, Porsches are seen as way too much wealth, and thus perceived as flaunting it. My friends have been there since the early 1980s and (American and Brit) also remarked that Porsches are perceived as completely impractical and thus get such unwanted attention. I'm mentioned this before herein but it is worth repeating. You rarely see Porsches in Germany anymore unless you're within 15 kilometers of Zuffenahusen. Even Germans are toning down their ownership by selecting black or silver so that they don't stand out. This is a big change from the 80s. One German man told me that he always buys a Guards Red 911 periodically so that his neighbors won't know that he bought a new one. "They all look the same" to others!

Soulteacher

Dan, I'm really sorry to hear this. That sucks. It's admirable that you kept an upbeat attitude. I would have freaked out, that's for sure.