TD in DC

Absolutely correct. If you manage to **** someone off, their way of showing displeasure is to pass you, but cut back in very close to the front of the car, wait a second, and then blast off like you are sitting still. I enjoyed the autobahn, but mostly at night when the traffic was far lighter. I found many areas to be too stressful to enjoy fully due to traffic, including traffic jams where traffic stops, rude drivers, speed limits (yes, much of the autobahn has speed limits now), and the most horrific wrecks I have ever seen in my life. They may have fewer wrecks than we do, but when there is a wreck, it is a real doozy.

BTW, do NOT flip off a German government employee (e.g., bus driver). The fine is $1,000, or at least it was in 95-96.

rcg412

hehe - totally agree with TD... sure there are less accidents in Germany, but when there is - it seems more likely to be fatal (on my experience). That said, i much prefer driving in Germany.

MMD

Compared to Germany it sounds like the USA would become a GREAT pleace to drive IF IF IF ONLY dipsh*ts here would stay out of the passing lane and keep right.

TD in DC

Here is the difference in my opinion. With a speed limit, you basically "know" what drivers around you will be doing, and you do not usually experience a radically different disparity in speed. With no speed limit, it is extraordinarily easy to get caught by a very fast car, even if you are paying attention, particularly if you are in a "normal" car. Also, in light of the increased mobility in Europe, you increasingly have drivers from different countries and cultures driving on the same roads, which can lead to unpredictability.

So, in my personal opinion, driving on the autobahn is a lot of fun, but the risks are greater and there is a fair bit of unpredictability, which can lead to stresss. In the United States, the ways in which you will be annoyed are stunningly predictable. Less fun, but less stressful.

uzj100

Amen!

Ever drive the Autostrada? YIKES!

Eggplant Cab

Actually I find it safer on the autobahn than in the US. People move out of the way of faster cars and not hog the fast lane. They signal their intentions and many drive at adequately faster speeds on the highway. And even with the tailgating etc, the autobahn is statistically about even with the US interstate per mile travelled.
I wouldn't say that about Portugal though, esp the non highway roads. They drive pretty much without rules.
Similarly (but not as bad) italian driving(autostrada) isn't about tailgating, it's about braille driving, like parisian parking.

Likemystoppie?

I didn't even know that there were cars in Germany.....

Alan Smithee

I strongly disagree. With 65mph speed limits and modern automobiles, drivers are bored and inattentive, which leads to other activities behind the wheel...picking up the phone, eating a sandwich, touching up makeup, reading a book...paying no attention to the surrounding vehicles. These are the people that I can't predict, that impede the flow of traffic, and that cause me stress.

European drivers in general are MUCH more alert and aware of their surroundings, and therefore far more predictable.

As important as being more alert is the supression of ego on European highways. The faster car/driver passes on the left, and the slower driver pulls to the right, period. Nobody feels entitled to control the flow of traffic by sitting in a left lane, and nobody is offended if a car is moving faster. US highways would be much more safe, comfortable, and have less traffic if drivers were more alert and shed their egos.

BC

Salzburg - if still there, CAFE SCHATZ. Best damn pastries you have ever experienced. Second or third old-wall "in", which will make sense to you when there. "Old" side of the river. Very near Mozart's yellow house.

TD in DC

That comment was made with respect to speed. For the most part, regardless of attention levels, "most" drivers in the U.S. travel "basically" the same speed.

I think that you are giving too much credence to the talent of "European" drivers. The average western european driver is better educated. But, there are many, many non-traditional drivers on the autobahn these days (e.g., eastern europeans, italians , immigrants, etc . . .). These differences in combination with the greater disparity in speeds can be very different. As I said, fewer wrecks, but real ugly when they happen.

I do not disagree with you about the flaws of the U.S. My only point is that the flaws are SO prevalent that they are predictable to a good driver.

Alan Smithee

Then we'll have to agree to disagree. Speed variables are not small on the freeways I drive on in So Cal, and when combined with inattentive drivers parking in the left lane and talking on the phone/etc. leads to a lot of cars having to maneuver across lanes of traffic at speed to maintain pace, which increases everybody's chance of being involved an accident. True, chances are that it will be at a lower speed than on an Autobahn, but that doesn't mean it won't still be traumatic.

I drive in Europe quite a bit. Two weeks ago I drove from Rome to Firenze on the A1, and even though the Autostrada is only two lanes in each direction (as are most Autobahns) and relatively heavy with Friday night traffic, was able to maintain speeds of over 100mph because every driver pulled to the right as I approached. I could not have been more relaxed, as I never had to take my eyes off of the road ahead. A similar drive from Los Angeles to San Diego on a Friday night requires constant mirror-checking and over-the-shoulder glances as one negotiates slower traffic, which is far more dangerous.

Except for the gas prices, I'd rather drive anywhere in Europe over anywhere in the US...and that includes Eastern European cities.

TD in DC

I think our disagreement may be less than you think. Many, many U.S. drivers suck. D.C. is consistently ranked as one of the worst places in the nation to drive. I hear you. I think that we probably have more accidents, some of which are fatal, but, I still think that the accidents you do have in Europe seem to be more likely to be fatal. Funny you should mention the A1. Many of the most gruesome wrecks I saw were on the A1 between Paris and Lille . . . simply horrible.

Both have their dangers, which are different, but I do want to disabuse Americans of the idea that the "Autobahn" is glorious and perfect, and that you do not run into idiot drivers with horrible habits . . . they exist . . .

Eggplant Cab

If you look at the stats for non-autobahn accidents, you'll find that the germans have a higher accident rate than the US. So better educated drivers may not offskew other factors like weather, road design and density of car population.
The thing why so many use the autobahn as an example is that the stats show the speed limit have less effect on the rate of accident than believed. The TUV is so much more stringent about car safety. I mean how many states enforce a safety inspection of cars? How many beaters are there on our highways that can't even go 50mph? Drivers obviously are part of it. The US driver licensing system is to pass a theory test, put on L plates and have someone who's a driver already sit next to you (if at all). Germany and many EU countries require schools for driver certification and costs over $1k just to get certified. So many other factors make EU drivers better educated skill and knowledge wise, but still dangerous driving is still dangerous driving. That's a human factor no system can negate completely.

Edgy01

Thanks for the tips in Salzburg!

I concur with most of the discussion,--I would MUCH rather drive with people who make driving their 100% business and not merely a distraction from their reading of books, practicing the bugle, doing their eye makeup, and talking incecently with their boyfriends on their overheated cell phones.

dan

BC

Ah, the LA- San Diego Kamakazee run. Camp Pendleton is 14 miles of greatness of highway.

Evene better is the run at 6:30am on Saturday to get up to Orange or LA for some "car thing".

The eyes over the shoulder and in rear view, as we all know , is not for traffic, but is for the boys in blue.