OCBen

True, I didn't mean to give a watch short shrift. To some people there are more important attributes than accurate time keeping. Some regard a watch as a piece of jewelry, and so attributes pertaining to jewelry become important to them. I don't happen to fall in that group.

But the thread is essentially about the Porsche versus the Vette, and so I wanted to redirect the focus there. There's a thread on watches here that I believe touched on the attributes of watches and what we find desirable. Granted, there are other important attributes, but supreme among them has to be accurate time keeping. What good is a Rolex if it doesn't keep good time? It becomes nothing but a piece of jewelry. And why wear it then?

1AS

And on that note....
Is Porsche going far enough with performance engineering or is it doling it out in tiny spoonfuls and riding its reputation?
We all love the attributes of our cars, but compared to the engineering that went into the ZO6, are we getting Porsche's best effort. I don't really think so (doesn't mean I don't love my Porsches).
Personally, I think the 997 should have 996tt power, and the 997tt should have AMG levels. Both should have a DSG option, both should have a few more weight cutting measures (tt particularly), and the tt should have a bigger tank (if the new one does, I haven't seen it yet).
Other companies have 6 and 7 speed automatics, but not Porsche, despite the fact that smaller displacement doesn't have the torque excess needed to forego closer ratios.
This isn't a rant, just a plea for more of what made Porsche what it is. AS

JohnnyBahamas

I'll tell you honestly, if I had been able to test drive my Z06 I would not have bought it. My expectations were not met. In fact, I'd have been better off getting a A/T Vert and sending it to Lingenfelter for the power. I mean if I'm just going to highway mile it... get a A/T and put in a Yank 3600 converter and a 3.15 final drive.

The Chevy dealers near me are no better. I used to take my C5 to the local Cadillac dealer. They were good enough. But, then the Cadillac sales guy sold me a new Caddy with body damage thinking that once he had me I was stuck... hah, so they don't see my money anymore. ( Traded the Caddy in on the Cayenne S as soon as they fixed the body damage on the Caddy for free.)

I just hope that I can drive the Z06 to the next closest Caddy dealer a good 45 minutes away. Christ, I just wish the Cayman had a V8 in it.

allegretto

I'm with you!

Now, how much do you want a 997 to cost?

Sanjeevan

Not that this magazine's opinion matter a whole lot,...I saw the article in a similar fashion to yours, and could not find much fault with it, other than the ones you mention. The vette clearly performes better but lags behind Porsche's steering feedback and the refined chassis. They chose to look at beauty when it comes to the Aston, and I have to agree that the Aston looks better than the Porsche.

At the end, they had to give the crown to Porsche as the most well balanced car overall. The only close match is the Cayman, which by the way is the only car that the 911 beat in the individual comparisions.

I think it was a well presented article. The ZO6 does better than the 911 in almost every performance criteria, albeit with a numbing feeling. The Aston is a whole lot sexier than the 911. I agree with both of these observations, and at the end if I have to pick a factory full of ZO6's VS a single 911,...I'll still pick the 911, like the magazine did. There is no substitute for the feel of how a 911 drives, period. Every one of you guy's who had chosen the 997 over the ZO6 had obviously chosen the 911's feel over the raw performance of the ZO6, WELL DONE.

Le Chef

A balancing act. Porsche clearly is making a ton of money selling the current range of sports cars and SUV's. They buy good data that lets them know who is buying and why, but perhaps more importantly who is not buying (whether 1 potential 1st time buyer or repeat buyer) and the reasons why.

Porsche for sure have engineering and styling upgrades available when they deem the market is moving away from them. So the question is why put "upgrades" in place if the market data shows you don't need to?

Reality is that we form a tiny % of all new Porsche purchasers and tend to have extreme points of view and are also opinionated and highly vocal about what we DON'T like, but we are not the core target for Porsche. They need us and listen to us because we influence others' opinions about Porsche, but we don't represent a big $ source of revenue.

Porsche is at a crossroads though. Do they improve performance through weight reduction, or do they simply add cubes to make the cars faster? Probably the latter as today's sports car owner seems to want all the luxuries of a Lexus and bragging rights performance. Tough for Porsche to charge more for less (only Ferrari seemed to have figured that one out).

We will see...

BiggerTwin

I think Porsche and Corvette are living up to their reputations, not resting on them. In the 60s the Corvette was cheaper and faster and it still is today. Is Porsche going far enough? Probably since I sold my C6 Corvette to buy a Porsche and GM could be in bankruptcy court before long while Porsche is buying up shares in VW with its spare change. I would prefer it if my Cayman did 0-60 in 4 seconds but Porsche must be doing something right anyway since they got my money. They have constantly improved the 911 to where the average person can drive it without having to worry about the rear end passing the front end in a turn. The base Carrera might not be blindingly fast in comparison to some other cars but it has plenty of performance engineering in it.

Alan

MMD

Would be nice to have the actual numbers for all this but here goes anyway.

It is said potential buyers go into it knowing which one they are going to buy, Porsche or Corvette.

Common wisdom sez guys who can afford and want Porsches get Porsches and never consider Corvettes. IOW, there is no comparision shopping between the two.

Why then would a stoopid magazine solicit that Corvette would "threaten" Porsche in the marketplace?

BiggerTwin

This simply isn't true. I cross shopped them as did others on Rennlist and other boards. Go check out the garage picture thread on CorvetteForum and it will quickly convince you that many Corvette owners can afford multiple Porsches. Quite a few people own both a Porsche and Corvette. I am sure there are many brand loyal customers but there are also many enthusiasts who comparison shop and buy what they like best. The Corvette-Porsche rivalry has been going on for decades and many of us have changed sides.

Alan

icon

to me it seems like chevrolet, with the corvette, is being more aggressive in the marketplace in terms of performance.
while porsche is being conservative on performance and trending toward the luxury, fit, finish, touchy, feely, and bunches of options!
if chevy upgrades their fit, finish, touchy, feely, than porsche best be gettin more aggresive with power to weight ratios.

also ben! rolex's don't keep time worth a but they still sell!
not to me though!
i'll take that patek off a allegretto though! even if it don't keep good time!
watch is the only jewelry a guy gets! unless you're a gold chain guy! ben?

blk on blk

I think the watch analogy is pretty good. I have a Ulysses Nardin watch that I love, but man that thing doesn't keep time all that great. Same with Porsche. You buy it for a lot of different reasons, and one of them for me is power. There were other reasons too of course, but for me a big one is power. I would like a bit more of it from a naturally aspirated engine. There is a huge horsepower war going on, and I think Porsche is simply falling behind a bit. Perhaps they are not as concerned about Corvette because frankly 911 and Porsche serve two very different customers. However, when the new M3 coupe arrives in short order with a bit over 400 hp I think Porsche better be ready to answer to some degree. I know M3 is a different market too, but it is closer in terms of customer base to the 911 than the Corvette. I love my 911, and will drive it a good long while, and probably buy another 911 thereafter, but I would like more power.

OCBen

Nope, don't wear a gold chain, never have never will (even when they were popular during the disco days). And I don't wear jewelry at all and don't wear cologne to work either. In fact, I don't often wear my wedding band to work since we're not allowed to wear exposed jewelry near spacecraft (I don't consider a wedding band jewelry – it's just a tag that happens to be made of gold )

My everyday watch is a chrono watch with a rotating bezel. It’s a Citizen Eco-drive with perpetual calendar, which means I never have to replace a battery and I never have to set the date. It has a lightweight titanium body and it keeps very accurate time. And that's all I care for in a watch. It's not flashy and I don't consider it jewelry. To me, it's just a well engineered precision instrument for keeping track of the passage of time with great accuracy. Anything else is just superfluous.

A 911 can be said to be a well engineered precision machine that becomes a time machine in that time passes too quickly when one is behind the wheel. Sorry, it's the best I could do on a Friday right before heading out the door for happy hour!

ds2k1

Having just put my order in on a Carrera, I find this whole conversation exceedingly interesting. Yes, the 'Vette is a much better pure performer for the money. In terms of raw numbers, it cannot possibly be beat for what it is. But I'm not a Corvette guy. Never, ever will be, no matter how many great things Chevy does to it in the future. I'm not a Chevy guy, and I really can't conceive of being an American car guy, unless the whole industry takes a dramatically different approach to auto making in the not-so-distant future. So, for me, never entered the equation.

As a previous poster said, the M3 is a car I would consider cross-shopping, but the new iteration isn't out yet. But honestly, it would have to be a whole helluva lot better than the Carrera in terms of overall performance to get me to consider buying it. As I'm sure many of you can attest to, the Carrera is something more than just a car. It is a visceral experience, and emblematic of the pinnacle of automotive excellence. And it's something I've wanted for my own since I was a little kid. Buying one before the age of 40 has been a personal goal, and I'm proud that I can do that. Purchasing a Corvette just wouldn't have satisfied all of those intangibles for me. But I have no doubt that it satisfies those intangibles for many other people. And I also have no doubt that I would get a big thrill from driving it, and would love every second of it. But for reasons that cannot be completely articulated, it just wouldn't be the same.

I actually think the MT article is dead-on. But I also know that it didn't make a bit of difference to me. There's nothing they could have written about any of the cars in the test that would have made me consider changing my mind away from the Carrera. I would imagine most of the people here would agree with that, no?

Chris C.

While there are exceptions, in general those who value what the Porsche offers (refinement, balance, cachet) enought to pay $20-30K more for it are unlikely to buy the Chevy since it doesn't offer those things. Yes it has superior performance in many categories, but it's still a plastic bodied car from Kentucky with a GM parts bin interior (no offense to Kentuckians or plasticians intended)

allegretto

No doubt here!

"watch with a rotating bezel. It’s a Citizen Eco-drive with perpetual calendar, which means I never (ED: how long do you plan to live?) have to replace a battery and I never have to set the date (ED again: Is that a George Carlin line, or what?). It has a lightweight titanium body and it keeps very accurate time"

Dude...you bother to ROCK with your car, even if it's subterranian since no one in OC can get their eyes un-glued from, like, the Z-06 (Oh my God!)

C'mon spaceman, step up my brother in the finer things.

Rolex? Pleeeeeeeeeeeez!

You need a nice vintage Vascheron while you can still get 'em. Before you know it those Producers and Agents will be snapping 'em all up and you'll pay triple what you can buy it for today.

I nice watch is the only thing a guy who has never seen BBM (and cried) can wear. Go on, no one at JPL will know (except the other watch geeks).

Icon, you see..