Coochas

OK,...I haven't even read this yet, BUT,...when a car mag puts out 16 pages of text and has "911" in big letters on the cover,...I feel the urge to spread the ink pronto. Therefore, I am not responsible for any flame wars etc that start as a result of these articles.
Basically it's another comparo of the 997S against the Z06 (gee, we've never seen that comparison) and the Aston Vantage (gee, never saw that either) and of course the Cayman S (gee, really,....and no, I won't say the "Cayman my ***" line again).
So,....waste away your evening and read on....
-meow
MT - 997S vs the World...

jjporsch43

Read on the plane....at least four times. Mostly BS. MT is sponsored by GM. Usual trash. How about that pic of the Z06 in between sections??? My take is-Round 3...Z06 vs 997TT, Round 4 is Z06 vs 997GT3-you'll never see these in MT because the Z06 was trashed by both or they'll find a way to discredit the P cars-so amusing.....

JJ in SA Texas

H20NOO

Let's face it, as an avid P-car fan and soon to be owner of a 997S (to join the 98 Cab), I think your bias is causing you to lose your objectivity. It really isn't fair to compare a Z06 and 997 Turbo unless money is no object. If you go that route, where do you stop? $150k? $200k? $500k?

The Z06 is the performance value of a lifetime. For the cost of a new 997 Turbo, you could buy a Z06 and a nice used 997, or damn near. The Z06 is HUGELY impressive but, it's still a Chevy and according to the article, you'll have to live with a lot of noise, heat and diminished civility.

Just don't berate Chevy too much for creating a 505HP rocket for the masses. I applaud them for it.

MC
98 993 Cab (too many mods to list)
06 997S Ordered (Atlas Grey, PCCB, X51, agonizing anticipation)

Deanski

As a former owner of a '69 L-88 Vette and now soon to be 997 C2S coupe owner, and after even DRIVING a Z06 I was impressed with the HP/Torque.

However, it feels like your're driving a large vehicle through the steering on the Z06. The interior is not what it should and could be. And yes, it DOES get hot inside when you push it. Gee, it's a close to an L-88 than I thought, but at least it has a radio.

There have been so many Z06/C2S reviews it's sick.

I find the C2S steering one of the best attributes of the car along with the sound and handling. Sure the Z06 does handle very well, but steering? ugh.

For the money, the vette wins. It's a hell of a car, will scare the crap out of you and just feels (heat and noise) more like a track car w/o good input from the wheel.

Don't sweat it. I'm going to enjoy my "P" car and know I have fine German engineering. Know that you have a fine car and one that was well engineered, built with the higherst quality and pride.

We know that the 10 best cars, Porsche C2S got second next to a Ferrari F430! Not bad company I'd say.

Go and drive your car, as you watch the sweat pour off the person driving the Z06!

Regards,
Deanski

Targa Tim

I read the magazine yesterday and I totally agree with advantage to Z06 over 997S as it is a better performance car.

However I totally disagree with the AMV8 article. The author is obviously someone who had never own any Porsche, nor does he deserve to ever own one. He wrote that people who spend so much on a car is to make other people feel that he is rich and powerful. If this is what he truly believe in, then he should not be writing car comparison article anymore. I pay so much for my Porsche because I appreciate the performance, handling and build quality of it. I hope most forum readers agree with me.

docjackson1

first of all, the cayman is not going to replace the 911-the carrera is a larger, roomier car to accomidate a wide range of drivers, whereas the cayman interior is much more restrictive in size. porsche will never stop producing their 911 platform-it is their trademark. i also feel that comparing the 500 hp z06 with the 350 hp cs and expecting the lesser horespower car to perform as well as the z06 is crazy. have you guys ever driven one? it has a dime store interior and drives like a heavy car. for the money you are paying there, all that you are getting is horsepower. at least they should improve the quality of their interior. build quality/drive quality alone, the carrera s is worth the extra money. try and put snows on the z06 and use that as a daily driver and see what happens. that article is pure crap.

H20NOO

Doc,

With all due respect, suggesting the article is "pure crap" suggests to me you are not being objective. I am a part time driving instructor and have driven many C-5 and prev generation Z06's and can tell you, the Z06's (405 hp version) are incredible performers. Would I own one? Nope, not a chance. But I give Chevy a ton of credit for building a car that outperforms EVERY mass production car in the world from it's price level to $150k at a minimum. And that assumes that the new 997 Turbo, with 473 hp and 3400+ lbs will be a match for it. Certainly the 997 Turbo will be more civil, more pleasant as a daily driver, more capable in the snow with AWD, etc. But, at nearly TWICE the price and about 300lbs heavier. That extra $70k and 300lbs should buy you a crap load of performance and civility if those two can truly co-exist in a supercar.

All I'm suggesting is that Chevy get credit when it's due. They just raised the performance per dollar benchmark by a huge margin and quite frankly, I'll be surprised if the 997 Turbo or 997 GT-3 can beat it convincingly in ANY performance category. I'll stick with my Porsche's but must also prepare for the predictable ribbing I'll receive at the track from my Corvette friends. By my calculations, my 997S (when it eventually arrives) with X51, PCCB, lightweight wheels, will hit 100mph in 10 seconds flat - about .9 seconds faster than a standard 997S and still a FULL 1.8 seconds slower than the Z06. So, I'll be watching my mirrors on the straights at Thunder Hill and Laguna Seca this summer.

MC

H20NOO

P.S.... You wrote: "try and put snows on the z06 and use that as a daily driver and see what happens. that article is pure crap"

In all seriousness, what would most readers say if Motor Trend had run the test "with snows on" on the snowy roads around Detroit rather than Laguna Seca and the California back roads? I think that supercar comparison would really be pure crap! Do they even make "snows" in a 325/30/R19 Run Flat? I doubt it and I hope they never do.

MC

scycle2020

i just got my first test drive in a z06 last week....very fast, scary fast, with good handling and amazing torque...but, it has a notch manual shifter, not so great steering feel and it feels bigger and heavier than it is...steering feel is only ok, you dont get that direct feedback and feel like you get in a porsche or a ferrari....the car is loud with annoying road noise and for all its power, the engine doesnt sound all that great, more like a muffled muscle car than a f1 race car...overall its a very fast car and an amazing car...the car is about unrefined ,raw speed...if thats what you crave, its the steal of the century...for me, i like my sports car with great steering feel, and a slick 6speed manual tranny, great handling , inspiring exhaust note,and a high quality comfortable interior...ahh, that sounds a lot like a 997S!!! ...as for the amv, its performance is a joke for cost of the car and until proven otherwise, its build quality and long term reliability are very suspect.....

Deanski

Another annoying aspect about the Z06. Drive it hard and the interior heats up. After that, when you park it, the smell of melting plastic is very pronounced.

Scary, yes it's easy to let it get away from you when you stomp on the loud petal. Very close to my L-88 in torque and HP. Noise was another thing that drives me nuts.. road noise through the cabin was really bad in my view. Maybe a change in tires will help, but since it's got very thin floorboards (balsa wood covered by carbon-fiber) there is quite a bit more road noise that in a long drive would make you go insane.

I agree with the steering input, very heavy, slushy feel. It makes you think you're driving a larger car.

For the bang for the buck, the Vette sure is a winner! Lots of power, not so bad look if you can get past that nasty interior and handles quite well when pushed. I just don't like all the noise and the exhaust note is not what it should be and I'm sure that also can be resolved. Brakes, feels like thowing out an anchor. Tranny is not what I expected. Again reminds me of my L-88 with the M-22 rock-crusher tranny.

I know we have one RENNLIST member who has both cars and can also report what his likes and dislikes between the two.

Bottom line: for raw HP and that good 'ol muscle car feel you have to go Z06.
For refined performance, and excelent craftsmanship you go with a C2S. The money is also a factor betwen the two. Hell, if I had more, I'd of ordered a F430

Winding road has several articles on the Z06 vs C2S as well.

Regards,
Deanski

docjackson1

[QUOTE=H20NOO]Doc,

With all due respect, suggesting the article is "pure crap" suggests to me you are not being objective. I am a part time driving instructor and have driven many C-5 and prev generation Z06's and can tell you, the Z06's (405 hp version) are incredible performers. Would I own one? Nope, not a chance. But I give Chevy a ton of credit for building a car that outperforms EVERY mass production car in the world from it's price level to $150k at a minimum. And that assumes that the new 997 Turbo, with 473 hp and 3400+ lbs will be a match for it. Certainly the 997 Turbo will be more civil, more pleasant as a daily driver, more capable in the snow with AWD, etc. But, at nearly TWICE the price and about 300lbs heavier. That extra $70k and 300lbs should buy you a crap load of performance and civility if those two can truly co-exist in a supercar.

All I'm suggesting is that Chevy get credit when it's due. They just raised the performance per dollar benchmark by a huge margin and quite frankly, I'll be surprised if the 997 Turbo or 997 GT-3 can beat it convincingly in ANY performance category. I'll stick with my Porsche's but must also prepare for the predictable ribbing I'll receive at the track from my Corvette friends. By my calculations, my 997S (when it eventually arrives) with X51, PCCB, lightweight wheels, will hit 100mph in 10 seconds flat - about .9 seconds faster than a standard 997S and still a FULL 1.8 seconds slower than the Z06. So, I'll be watching my mirrors on the straights at Thunder Hill and Laguna Seca this summer.




i think that you are missing my point. if motor trend was just evaluating these cars as "track cars", then they should have said that and included other cars such as vipers, etc. i think we both agree that we would both rather own a c2s and drive it every day than do the same with a corvette. why? because in a c2s, you have a car that you can track and be competative if that's your thing, and you can have a sports car that you can drive to work in comfort that handles beautifully. if you look at those cars that they compared only as track cars, then the z06 wins. but most of the buying public doesn't track their car-most drive them to work, use it on the weekends. which car wins then? would you want the vette with the cheep interior, the heavy ride/steering, the hot interior, the cramped room for any one over 6'2"?

Deven

Well it looks like the 0-60 was 4.4, 4.4, and 4.5 when compared to the other 3 cars (did they test the car three times?). I am happy about that as that is significantly faster than what is reported in the manual (not as fast as Car and drivers sub 4 numbers).

Targa Tim

The 4.4 is 997S, while 4.5 is 997.

Scuderia

Having read the aforementioned article let me politely say that Chevrolet Corvette, Aston Martin and Porsche each reflect the individual design philosophy of their respective manufacturer. In no way is the article an apples to apples comparison. Corvette reflects American driving conditions, long distances over normally straight roads. The selection of materials reflects GM's demographic research and desire to profitably produce a product for a particular price point. Porsche relects a european reality, shorter distances tighter more twisting roads. In some ways a more spohisticated cliental, who has an appreciation for the qualities that set it apart from Corvette. Aston Martin, not withstanding all the changes made by Ford, still reflects the viewpoint of the age of empire. It does not aim to be european, nor will it ever be. Aston Martin is the embodyment of the idea of a "gentlemans sporting motorcar".
The reality is that each appeal to a particular type of individual. As long as each continue to satisfy their particular cliental, each will continue to be produced.

Deven

Lol, I guess I should have read the article more carefully. What is then more interesting is:

997 S Base
0-30 1.6 1.5
0-40 2.3 2.2
0-50 3.4 3.4
0-60 4.4 4.5
0-70 5.9 6.0
0-80 7.4 7.6
0-90 9.0 9.3
0-100 10.9 11.6
1/4 mile 13.0 13.0

weight 3275 3264
2.2 mile couse 111.0sec 111.8sec

So that means 30 extra Hp (about 10% more), more torque, with a larger displacement engine is essentailly is a waist of money? Or was the driver of the S significantly heavier, less motivated (or skilled)? I know that this basically means that within testing error there is no difference between the S and Base, and that is dissappointing? (or maybe Car and Driver's numbers are more accurate?). Then in that case a more appropriate comparison would be the Base 997 to the AM and Vette, why even bother with the S?

I am having a hard time reading the entire article, but is this maybe because PASM or some other factor that differentiates the S from base?