boolala

Hard to justify the S on a performance basis. Harder still to justify the X51 on a cost/value basis.

eilig

Agreed. As the owner of a 997S, and a Z06, and a ZR-1 I love each car for what it has to offer. Each is different, and I LIKE that! I don't look at one being better than another. I look at each being different than another. There are things that I like and dislike about each. And let's face it, we all have different tastes. To each, his own!

BTW, if someone says that the build quality of the Porsche is higher than that of the Z06, they will certainly get no argument from me!

P.S -- Isn't it interesting that articles always seem to compare cars to the 911!!?? Doesn't it say something about our car when it is the standard against which all others are compared? It's definitely a form of flattery!

scycle2020

the article states at the begining that most sports car buyers really do not do comparisons between such different cars..this is true, the mags do it just to have something to write about and set up meaningless headline like "Is the 911 or {the ferrari or the bmw3 series} still king"....and they said the z06 is winner over the 997 for someone most interested in raw speed....duhh!!!! and AMV is the winner over the 997 for someone who in most interested in style and exclusivity...duhh!!!! i am suprised by 1} how medicore the performance of the amv is...my boxster s will keep up with it one the straights and beat it in the corners and 2}how close the acceleration numbers were btn the 997 and the 997s..porsche claims 0.2 seconds to 60 difference and most mags have had 0.3 to 0.5 seconds difference to 60...subjectively, the S seems quicker to me with a more substantial exhaust and engine note....

Bob/Ft. Worth

I guess we could debate Z06 vs. Carrera all day, what got my attention was the magazine's speculation in the last 2 paragraphs about the future of Porsche. To paraphrase: is the cayman being positioned to replace the 911?

So, to me this is the biggest question. Is cayman the future?. This seems to ring a distant bell when the 928 was touted as the successor to the 911 in '78. We all know the answer to that. Does a comapny sell it's signature product down the river? Didn't Coke try that with the new Coke? And isn't that a classic case of a marketing decision meltdown?

Aside form incremental improvements, will the 911 be around in 5 years? 10 years? Will Porsche be Porsche without a 911?

To me, that's all I care about...

bob

robbonds

i dont think it will replace the 911...i do think over time they should increase the performance difference between the 2...porsche needed to add to their line up to keep volumes up so its profitable to have more dealersips, more service departments etc... they cayman is a 2 seater for people that dont want a convertible...the boxster obviously is a 2 seater convert...the 911 is the flagship...in 2009 we will see the first true 4 door sports car, the panamera...they will continue to add to their product line to fill voids and increasse sales (profitable sales at that)
Feb. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Porsche AG, the carmaker with the
highest profit margins, plans to develop its own platform for its
all-new four-door Panamera sports car, Chief Financial Officer
Holger Haerter said.
The company will go ahead on its own without the help of
Volkswagen AG, Europe's largest carmaker, Haerter said in an
interview at the Geneva Motor Show. The sports-car maker is
Volkswagen largest shareholder with an 18.5 percent stake.
Porsche is spending 1 billion euros ($1.2 billion) to develop
its first four-door sports car. The car will go on sale in 2009
and will compete with models such as Bayerische Motoren Werke AG's
7-Series. Porsche expects to sell 20,000 of the cars annually.
Porsche and Volkswagen developed the Cayenne and Touareg sport-
utility vehicles together.
The four-seat Panamera will be the third new model introduced
by Chief Executive Wendelin Wiedeking since he took over at
Porsche 12 years ago. Wiedeking aims to increase the company's
annual sales by 30% to 100,000 by 2008.

fast1

i think that you are missing my point. if motor trend was just evaluating these cars as "track cars", then they should have said that and included other cars such as vipers, etc. i think we both agree that we would both rather own a c2s and drive it every day than do the same with a corvette.

That's the crux of the issue. How should Sports Cars be evaluated?

Each person will have his own views, but to me a Sports Car should be evaluated on its performance, and not on its accouterments. Sports Cars today have such incredible performance that the only wat to explore what they have to offer is by taking the cars to the track. To do otherwise would be completely irresponsible. Hence, I'm in agreement with the methodology used by MT. I give credit to GM for building a $70K car that has performance that is competitive with cars costing three times as much.

ds2k1

I find it interesting that the 911 gets compared to so many cars in so many different ways. It really is in a class by itself, if you ask me. And its broad appeal is for many reasons. It is fast (but not the fastest), it handles great (but many cars handle better), it is well appointed (but not quite luxurious), it is somewhat reasonably priced (but by no means a bargain, like the 'Vette), and it is prestigious (but by no means the most prestigious). In short, it does all things well, but does nothing the best. It is the perfect compromise car. Comparing it to any car that is THE standard in its category (fastest, best handling, most luxurious, greatest bargain) is folly because it is not what the 911 strives to be. Which, quite frankly, is why it is so popular and has such broad appeal. It is simply the best car available for people who want healthy portions of "all of the above" without sacrificing in any particular area. At least, that's what it means to me anyway.

BTW, will be ordering my first 911 today or tomorrow with a likely May build. Do I care that the 'Vette is faster, or the Cayman better handling? Not at all. That's never been the reason I fell in love with the 911. Knowing that it is precisely all things I want and need it to be is why I'm laying my cash down.

scycle2020

i have to disagree, for me a sports car is about much more than performance...why else would ferrari have 4 year waiting lists and 430s sell for 50-100k above list price??? the z06 has close to or even better performance numbers than the 430 for 1/3 the price, but most people would enjoy driving the ferrari more.....to me , a great sports car has to have great feel and soul, it has to become part of you...a great sports car feels great and fun to drive even at legal speeds.....think about, only a very small percentage of sports cars are ever tracked....now a track car you are going to race with is a different story....

1AS

If you look at a bare C6 and a C6ZO6, the amount of work that GM has done for the small premium is incredible. True dry sump, a specialized engine factory, carbon fiber, alloy changes in structure, balsa sandwich construction for the floors, etc. Porsche charges $15,000 for a tiny computer upgrade and a stop watch. If Porsche had undertaken changes of this magnitude, the price of the 997 would exceed a loaded turbo.
I've driven Corvettes thru the midwest winter with and without 4 snows. They are no worse than Porsches on similar tires. I, for one, would really like a first geat that gets to 60, something that Porsche won't do.
The Cayman is a great car, but is substantially overpriced. We, however, represent a segment of the market that is somewhat price-insensitive. Whicever decision one makes, it is dishonest to fail to recognize the fantastic achievement of the new ZO6. If I didn't have too many cars , I'd be getting in line now. AS

scycle2020

i have owned and driven several vettes including c3, c4 and c5s and several 911s and i can tell you that porsches are far better than vettes in the snow due to the weight being in back over the driving wheels...just like the old beetles were good in the snow...just simple physics....

1AS

scycle,
If you compare year-by-year, what you said was true in the 80's when Porsches came with tires that could be winter-driven and Corvette did not. My targa was perfectly tractable, my Corvette was not, until I talked to the Corvette engineers and bought the tires/rims they used for winter testing. Then the Corvette was better, and there were no similar snows for the targa'
In the 90's, Porsche went with very soft summer rubber to equal Corvette skidpad characteristics. GM was using a deeply grooved all-weather tire on Corvette. At that point, I could drive my vette thru winteron the standard rubber, but needed to park my Cab, as it was unmanagable in snow.
Currently both need winter tires.

Your simple physics conclusion is oversimplified. What a porsche has a hard time doing in snow is turning-in, since the front tires are lightly loaded. On correct rubber, it does have more rear-wheel traction. But,the summer tires that have come on my cars are really poor in cold conditions with any amount of snow, and negate the physics. My current tt ws okay til the tires got about 6,000 miles, then was impossible in 1 inch of slush.
The Beetle was better, in part because of skinny tires. The Porsche worse with fat ones. BTW, the Corvette engineers used to winter test the car with 7.75 X15 tires all around, on B car (Impala) rims.That was a phenomenal solution for its time.

On snows, both can become plows in deep snow. There was no better snow car than a 964 Carrera 4 on 4 snows. That car would climb a tree. It was better than my current X50 on snows, and didn't need computer assist. AS

scycle2020

point well made and well though out......

Carrera GT

An interesting read, but poorly written and naive and artless to say the least.

Comparing the hot rod Corvette to the Carrera S is a nonsensical mis-match. Bringing the entry-level Porsche coupe into the mix makes for an interesting -- as I said -- read, but makes no sense in terms of a comparison to draw out useful observations. It's basically a quick drive of three cars written up in one article. Second rate work at best, but still a good read for die-hard car enthusiasts. Another toll on the bell for print media competing in an Internet age.

As for the observations in this piece, there's some doozies. Porsche is not "grooming" the Cayman to replace or even contest the 911. Thankfully, Porsche has long since realised that the 911 is their only claim to fame and should they ever (again) try to shelve it, they're dead and buried.

I think most of "us" (Porschephiles) expect a comparo of the Turbo with the Z06 will be fun. MSRP aside, and ignoring fluffy concepts of "driver involvement" I'd say the Turbo should (must) exceed the specifications of the Z06 or Mr Porsche needs to rethink his game.

Comparing the Z06 to the coming GT3 will be interesting too. Whether the GT3 can set a lap time lower than the Z06 or carve a higher G in the corners doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. What might be interesting is to see if all the various reviewers start to suggest that the rear-engine 911 has finally reached an engineering or physical limit that takes it out of the game.

Personally, the Z06 could well end up in the garage for a play thing and track toy. If someone happened to ask me what I drive, I'd still identify myself as driving -- well, at least owning ... jokers, keep it quiet ... -- a 993 Turbo. And if Porsche ever perchance builds a better car than the 993, I'll be quick to "upgrade." For the time being, my GT3 order waits its turn. And the Z06 is tempting, especially once the dealers start to cut their throats to sell idle inventory.

fast1

Well stated. As far as price is concerned, Porsche does not base its price on a cost plus basis. They charge strictly on what the market will bear, and generally they get it right. The only recent exception that I can recall is the 996 40th anniversary car, when Porsche offered significant Dealer rebates to help move that model. Otherwise Porsches seem to sell quite well despite the premium the brand commands.

fast1

Each of us look at a variety of factors when evaluating a car for purchase. It's the value we place on these disparate factors that will determine which car we will ultimately purchase. I'm vey impressed with the C6 Z06's performance, but I'm unimpressed with the Chevy Dealers near me. As a matter of fact, they are the pits. So for that reason alone I will never be paying $70K+ for a GM product.