GSIRM3

Very good point, and it is interesting that no one wants to respond to the question. There is no doubt than many buy the Porsche because of the name. The 997 is a very good car and I would agree, more of a pure sportscar than the M3. But, is the 997 40K more car? I think not, unless it is important for one to be able to say he/she owns a Porsche.

People complain about the unreasonable cost of Porsche options, and they are correct. But, I have got news for you, it is not just the options, it is the entire car that is overpriced. A M3 will deliver 90+ % of the performance of a 997 and 80 - 85 % of the performance of the 997S. The M3 just doesn't say Porsche on it, which apparently is very important to some.

pcar964

I don't think bringing up the Z06 in a debate over M3 vs 997 is "stirring the pot," considering it's right in the middle of the price range, and out-performs both cars.

Plus Ray, you know how I love dry sumps

pcar964

That's pretty accurate, in my opinion. However, the percieved exclusivity is disappearing quickly as new pcars are literally everywhere you look (at least here in Florida)

1AS

Or, what would people pay for a ZO6 if the badge read "575Maranello"?
In my mind, I have little doubt that if I were in the car market currently, instead of paying $147,000 for my X50, I would get a new ZO6 (for the track and summer days)and a used tt (for date night and winter). AS

frayed

It is sad that this thread turned into a 'The Z06 outperforms everything so you'd be a moron/elitist/snob not to buy one' thread. Using that logic, any sports car buyer who does not buy a Z06 but spends over 80k, falls into this camp.

All this from the innocent question about the M3.

Different strokes. . .

boolala

I don't think that's the point but the whole situation has put me in an introspective mood. Would I buy A Corvette if it was a European brand? Honestly I think I would consider it more seriously than I do now. Would I buy a 911 if it were an American made car? Probably not. But in part this is based upon the existing track record (no pun intended) of American cars.

Ray S

I wish it were so. I'd love to buy an "American 911". Unfortunately, it doesn't exist. Corvette's while brutally effective are still......well brutish. I have not had a chance to drive the new Z06, but I can't imagine that it is fundamentally different than a C6. All 911's seem to shrink around me when I drive them. They seem smaller, lighter and more precise. Corvette's seem bigger and have less finese. A C6 now has much more 911ish dimensions (weight, length, track) but drive bigger.

As for the "Porsche Corvette", they kind of built that in the 928. A big front engined V8 German GT...

MMD

Sometimes I think I'd buy a corvette if it came with a "Ferrari" or "Porsche" body. Not a fake Ferrari, but rather a more beautiful sophisticated body design than the Corvette's overstated, over aggressive, watered-down-to-appeal-to-everybody-GM style. The Corvette performance is there, it's the adolescent looks that bother me.

Then I pinch myself and remind myself how the shoddy details of design, assembly, and materials, would start showing up after a few weeks of ownership. THOSE things which are givens in GM's ability to build a cheap car (from expensive labor) would REALLY start bothering me bigtime. Nice thing about Porsche is it's hard to find shortcomings in the car over the weeks and years you own it.

frayed

Dude, get off the quaaludes.

Chevy is not capable of building a car with the driving dynamics and precision of a Porsche. At least not today. I have a theory on this, that was passed to me by a good friend and accomplished national level racer; despite being a racer, he's a car enthusiast first.

Theory: Cars do have distinct feel and personality, divorced from the spec sheets and Gtec runs. That personality is engineered into the car, as a natural reflection of those who design and build such cars. Broadly speaking, these personalities are a function of the national culture. The precision, communication and driving dynamics we experience in Porsches that are not present in Chevy's best is wholly understandable if viewed in this manner. After all, ultimately humans build these machines.

Anyway, that's my introspective comment for this thread. Now, back to your regularly scheduled (internet smackdown) program.

boolala

But my question was a hypothetical one: WHAT IF GM made the 911 as we know it (I'm not suggesting they can)? Would we buy it or still prefer European cars?

My point is that I think many people would still go for the imports and the high price tag.

I could be wrong.

MMD

I wonder, is the Saleen in the same game? I mean I'd buy one even though it's apparently completely american. That's a great model isn't it? 'Merican made and a good success story built around an apparently great product. We're talking speciality niche autos, so maybe Saleen is the only player that's not American; all the rest are European.

JohnnyBahamas

Damn, I hadn't realized that the general understanding of what makes a 911 different from the other choices had degenerated to simply "American" or "German". Ridiculous.

And, an oversight of the construction differences between the two and what those differences contribute to driving experience... a driving experience that has nothing to do with national origin. Here's the news while you were away... Leather and steel engineered to the hilt costs more than plastic and plastic engineered to the hilt.

Porsche got GAME! Eye this...

18 gauge, dual galvanized steel body panels. Full steel panel passenger cell. Boron steel beam door and passenger cage. Alum., 4 valve per, DOH Vario Cam, 11.8:1 compression ratio engine. 6 speed manual dual mass flywheel driven gear box with a self adjusting clutch. Spring over aluminum damper, multilink rear suspension and McPherson strut front with longitudinal and transverse links. Monobloc four-piston caliper brakes that are the car world's benchmarks.

What'd the kids bring?

boolala

So, in other words, you still don't understand the question.

JohnnyBahamas

Oh, I was unaware that you were unaware of the literary device that you where using. A declarative statement posed as a question that one asks and then follows with one's answer containing subjective opinion. Ending with the equivication of "I could be wrong".

The question you've posed is whether you are right or wrong.

You are wrong.

boolala

A one word answer would have been sufficient.

Thanks anyway.