Please tell me again why I should get Sport Chrono.
04-01-2005, 05:00 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by RonCT
Let me see if I understand this option...
Automatically puts pasm into sport. OK, if I'm heading to the track, I can put PASM into sport mode myself.
Changes the throttle map (they even have a graph of this in the brochure). OK, this really does nothing - what it means is if you used to have to press the throttle 1/2" to get 25% throttle, with sport on you only press 3/8". Here's the thing - to the non-technical driver, this will "feel" like it is an improvement, but it really is smoke and mirrors. If it truly remapped throttle linkage and made it more linear say if it was originally choppy, then maybe it would be worth something. In my current M3, I purchased the Shark Injector to truly remap the throttle mapping because OEM is so choppy - best $300 spent.
Increases the limit for PSM - um, turn it off or leave it oem. Heading for the track, don't want any electronic gizmos in the way.
The wart - as someone here said - this is a gimmick, just like the charts and whatnot. I love hitting the track, but could never see myself caring at all about timing software like this.
Theory: Perhaps one of the reasons the option is only $900 is it really is nothing other than a clock on the dash. The software mods are nothing really - perhaps this feels like a value option and is really one of their most profitable.
Honestly, if you like this option, or any, buy it and enjoy it. My order will have no chrono sport and I'm even deleting the sunroof. Call me crazy, but I get what I want and at this level, I don't care one iota about possible impact to resale. I'm buying the car for me, not somebody down the road.
Unfortunately for the US market, we can't have the S without PASM - just a lowered sport suspension. Now that would be sweet and what is pushing me toward the non S variant.
Automatically puts pasm into sport. OK, if I'm heading to the track, I can put PASM into sport mode myself.
Changes the throttle map (they even have a graph of this in the brochure). OK, this really does nothing - what it means is if you used to have to press the throttle 1/2" to get 25% throttle, with sport on you only press 3/8". Here's the thing - to the non-technical driver, this will "feel" like it is an improvement, but it really is smoke and mirrors. If it truly remapped throttle linkage and made it more linear say if it was originally choppy, then maybe it would be worth something. In my current M3, I purchased the Shark Injector to truly remap the throttle mapping because OEM is so choppy - best $300 spent.
Increases the limit for PSM - um, turn it off or leave it oem. Heading for the track, don't want any electronic gizmos in the way.
The wart - as someone here said - this is a gimmick, just like the charts and whatnot. I love hitting the track, but could never see myself caring at all about timing software like this.
Theory: Perhaps one of the reasons the option is only $900 is it really is nothing other than a clock on the dash. The software mods are nothing really - perhaps this feels like a value option and is really one of their most profitable.
Honestly, if you like this option, or any, buy it and enjoy it. My order will have no chrono sport and I'm even deleting the sunroof. Call me crazy, but I get what I want and at this level, I don't care one iota about possible impact to resale. I'm buying the car for me, not somebody down the road.
Unfortunately for the US market, we can't have the S without PASM - just a lowered sport suspension. Now that would be sweet and what is pushing me toward the non S variant.
04-01-2005, 05:10 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by MrBonus
The quicker throttle response makes heel-toe shifting much easier. Some of us don't want to reflash our ECU and lose our warranty when we could simply pay a few hundred more for the option from the factory.
And as to modifying the car - If you read up on warranty law here in the US, auto companies cannot void warranty on things like brake pads, intake, exhaust, cpu adjustments (like Shark), etc. It is not possible for something like an adjustment to throttle linkage timing (oem throttle vs. Shark / Sport) to impact the car and therefore the warranty. Now if you were talking about changing cams, that's a whole other matter and could void the warranty (maybe - if they could prove your new cams directly and negatively impacted the engine).
Again, to each his own and if you like Sport Chrono, then get it. Will it make the car any faster? No, HP and torque is the same, you just have to press the gas a tiny bit less to use it.
04-01-2005, 05:15 PM
#33
Ron, nice to hear your input on this one.
I think if given the choice, most people would get the option if for no other reason than it will probably be easier to sell the car.
That said, its not that expensive, won't do anything negative to the car (exept the aesthetically subjective stopwatch). Why not.
PS.
Regarding the US warranty laws versus the EU, gotta love it.
Love to use launch control in the M3 eh Ron? me too, me too
I think if given the choice, most people would get the option if for no other reason than it will probably be easier to sell the car.
That said, its not that expensive, won't do anything negative to the car (exept the aesthetically subjective stopwatch). Why not.
PS.
Regarding the US warranty laws versus the EU, gotta love it.
Love to use launch control in the M3 eh Ron? me too, me too
04-01-2005, 05:23 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by Moogle
Ron, nice to hear your input on this one.
I think if given the choice, most people would get the option if for no other reason than it will probably be easier to sell the car.
That said, its not that expensive, won't do anything negative to the car (exept the aesthetically subjective stopwatch). Why not.
PS.
Regarding the US warranty laws versus the EU, gotta love it.
Love to use launch control in the M3 eh Ron? me too, me too
I think if given the choice, most people would get the option if for no other reason than it will probably be easier to sell the car.
That said, its not that expensive, won't do anything negative to the car (exept the aesthetically subjective stopwatch). Why not.
PS.
Regarding the US warranty laws versus the EU, gotta love it.
Love to use launch control in the M3 eh Ron? me too, me too
Part of the reason I wrote my replies the way I did was to try to encourage everyone to get what they want, and not what the car maker and media think you should buy. Don't think so much about resale - aren't you buying this for you? Over at roadfly, there has been so much discussion over the years about no-sunroof (my car) and how so many thought it would kill resale. Well, the few cars that have gone on the market have sold quicker and for more than those with sunroofs because there's an enthusiast market out there that doesn't want the extra 50 lbs above the center of gravity (not to mention the extra inch of helmet clearance).
As to launch control - alas, I'm behind the times with technology. Manual here.
04-01-2005, 05:23 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by OCBen
There was this one poster here (I can’t recall who it was) who was looking to see if he could change out the “fake quad tips” (I think that’s how he described it) on his 997S and put in the standard oval exhaust tips, because he thought it looked pretentious like a Pontiac Grand Am when the car isn’t a V-8 at all. I like his viewpoint.
Although I ordered the car with Sport Chrono, I still can't _quite_ accept the stopwatch on the dash for the reasons you so thoughtfully explained.
I'm thinking when I get the car I'll soon pop the stopwatch out of the dash and get some sort of "patch" made to put it in it's place.
Then again I'll probably get used to it and leave everything alone. Trying to change everything (quads and wart) just attracts more attention from guys who know the car; like they'll ask what you're trying to prove with almost as much validity as they could ask a guy why he turned his non-S into an S by painting the calipers and adding the S wheels and quads.
What a Dilemma huh? Leave the S stock and give credence and support to Porsche's decision to add gimmicks to the car into make it appeal to a wider audience. Makes me sick to think they caved into the belief that more guys want dozens of switches and computer screens in the car; I just want the clean lines and clarity of the original early 911 interior.
The PCM mess, because of it's in-your-face presence should be re-named, "The Communications and Navigational Operations Management and Control Central Panel Complex Assembly Interface Unit" should be OPTIONAL!
Oh well, at least the multitudinous buttons are _small_.
04-01-2005, 05:32 PM
#36
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You hit the nail on the head. Porsche has slowly but surely caved into a consumer driven company. I remember reading a post, I think it was here, which was a quote from one of the German Porsche engineers. The question to him was 'Why 19" wheels???' where the implication was that 18s were the optimal size / ratio for a sports car. The response went something like this. Well, we did have to re-engineer the car late in the game to accept 19s because marketing told us that today's consumer wanted 19s. Not because they'd perform better, but because the mass market is looking for 19s. So, the engineers lost that battle to marketing, they had to modify parts and pieces to accept the 19s, and thus we have 19s stock on the S. How many tire companies make R-compound 19s? Well, the only one I know of is Michelin and they aren't on the general consumer market. They are stock on the BMW M3 CSL. Why did BMW put them on that car instead of 18s? Well, same marketing reason I suppose.
04-01-2005, 05:42 PM
#37
There was also a statement from porsche awhile back indicating the only reason for the redesign of the 997 suspension was to accomodate 19'' wheels better.
and since 19'' wheels dont add performance... we can only say that 'form follows function' is slowly being phased out.
its never enough though.
someone just put 20's on their 997
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/194308-just-installed-20-techart-on-my-997-a.html
bling bling.
and since 19'' wheels dont add performance... we can only say that 'form follows function' is slowly being phased out.
its never enough though.
someone just put 20's on their 997
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/194308-just-installed-20-techart-on-my-997-a.html
bling bling.
04-01-2005, 06:59 PM
#39
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How is it different experientially from the M3?
Originally Posted by RonCT
Let me see if I understand this option...
Automatically puts pasm into sport. OK, if I'm heading to the track, I can put PASM into sport mode myself.
Changes the throttle map (they even have a graph of this in the brochure). OK, this really does nothing - what it means is if you used to have to press the throttle 1/2" to get 25% throttle, with sport on you only press 3/8". Here's the thing - to the non-technical driver, this will "feel" like it is an improvement, but it really is smoke and mirrors. If it truly remapped throttle linkage and made it more linear say if it was originally choppy, then maybe it would be worth something. In my current M3, I purchased the Shark Injector to truly remap the throttle mapping because OEM is so choppy - best $300 spent.
Increases the limit for PSM - um, turn it off or leave it oem. Heading for the track, don't want any electronic gizmos in the way.
The wart - as someone here said - this is a gimmick, just like the charts and whatnot. I love hitting the track, but could never see myself caring at all about timing software like this.
Theory: Perhaps one of the reasons the option is only $900 is it really is nothing other than a clock on the dash. The software mods are nothing really - perhaps this feels like a value option and is really one of their most profitable.
Honestly, if you like this option, or any, buy it and enjoy it. My order will have no chrono sport and I'm even deleting the sunroof. Call me crazy, but I get what I want and at this level, I don't care one iota about possible impact to resale. I'm buying the car for me, not somebody down the road.
Unfortunately for the US market, we can't have the S without PASM - just a lowered sport suspension. Now that would be sweet and what is pushing me toward the non S variant.
Automatically puts pasm into sport. OK, if I'm heading to the track, I can put PASM into sport mode myself.
Changes the throttle map (they even have a graph of this in the brochure). OK, this really does nothing - what it means is if you used to have to press the throttle 1/2" to get 25% throttle, with sport on you only press 3/8". Here's the thing - to the non-technical driver, this will "feel" like it is an improvement, but it really is smoke and mirrors. If it truly remapped throttle linkage and made it more linear say if it was originally choppy, then maybe it would be worth something. In my current M3, I purchased the Shark Injector to truly remap the throttle mapping because OEM is so choppy - best $300 spent.
Increases the limit for PSM - um, turn it off or leave it oem. Heading for the track, don't want any electronic gizmos in the way.
The wart - as someone here said - this is a gimmick, just like the charts and whatnot. I love hitting the track, but could never see myself caring at all about timing software like this.
Theory: Perhaps one of the reasons the option is only $900 is it really is nothing other than a clock on the dash. The software mods are nothing really - perhaps this feels like a value option and is really one of their most profitable.
Honestly, if you like this option, or any, buy it and enjoy it. My order will have no chrono sport and I'm even deleting the sunroof. Call me crazy, but I get what I want and at this level, I don't care one iota about possible impact to resale. I'm buying the car for me, not somebody down the road.
Unfortunately for the US market, we can't have the S without PASM - just a lowered sport suspension. Now that would be sweet and what is pushing me toward the non S variant.
How is the 997 button different form the M3, again?
04-01-2005, 07:05 PM
#40
Originally Posted by MMD
I have a "sport button" on my M3, which changes the throttle response. I personally don't think much of it; though it impresses friends when I let them drive the car. Nice to have but not a big deal: certainly not worth an extra guage on the M3 dash if you had to have one.
How is the 997 button different form the M3, again?
How is the 997 button different form the M3, again?
and yes, in my M3, it really doesnt do much
most of the effect is probably the placebo effect.
throttle response is slightly affected.
i think its primary function is for the launch control easter egg
04-01-2005, 07:39 PM
#41
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Dont care what you all say, the car is faster with the sport chrono. It is faster coming up to higher rpm and pulls harder in the low end. I did some runs at the autocross with and with out it and the car was quicker with it on.
Ron , have you even driven one with it?
Your rant about 19's and performance etc is old and tired as well. I want my car to look awesome and the 997 looks silly with those little 18's on it. I took 19's from previous owner off my 996 and went to light OEM 5 spokes. car handled and performed better and my times imporved.
I and alot of others dont care about that performance because we do not race the cars, if i did I would buy a GT3 and be set up properly with 18's and a dry sump.
Quit ripping on people for their personal preferences, to each his own.
By the way the 20's look sick on BD997's car and if thats what he wants then more power to him!
Ron , have you even driven one with it?
Your rant about 19's and performance etc is old and tired as well. I want my car to look awesome and the 997 looks silly with those little 18's on it. I took 19's from previous owner off my 996 and went to light OEM 5 spokes. car handled and performed better and my times imporved.
I and alot of others dont care about that performance because we do not race the cars, if i did I would buy a GT3 and be set up properly with 18's and a dry sump.
Quit ripping on people for their personal preferences, to each his own.
By the way the 20's look sick on BD997's car and if thats what he wants then more power to him!
04-01-2005, 08:22 PM
#42
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Sport Chrono
A number of adjustments are made in Motronic when the Sport function is activated. The electronic throttle characteristicis switched to a steeper setting (only in manual mode with Tiptronic S). This produces a faster throttle response to accelerator pedal movements to subjectively increase the spontaneity of the engine.
When the Sport Chrono button is pressed, the abrupt cut-off (cf. section 2.3.14) is active in 1st to 5th gears for the manual gearbox (without Sport Chrono function only in 1st and 2nd gears) and in the manual setting for Tiptronic transmission.
The so-called dash pot is executed less smoothly and with less emphasis on comfort. This means that the throttle closes fasterwhen released. The result is a heightened, “racing-like” engine dynamic.
Sport mode allows the extreme driver to deliberately direct PSM interventions away from driving stability and more towards agility and driving dynamics, without having to sacrifice PSM support in emergency situations.
In addition PASM is automatically switched to its sport setting. This results in harder damping and therefore more spontaneity when steering into corners. Body movements are noticeably reduced, improving road contact. Agility and driving pleasure, particularly on circuits, are also increased and overall driving stability in extreme driving situations improved.
In addition there are the indivdual memory settings for:
DRL
Wipers
Comfort lighting duration adjustable from 10 seconds to120 seconds
• Automatic climate control: save basic setting (e.g. 73°F, fan set to maximum output and defrost on)
• Unlocking opens all doors or just the driver's door
• Autolock: off, on upon ignition or active after moving off
When the Sport Chrono button is pressed, the abrupt cut-off (cf. section 2.3.14) is active in 1st to 5th gears for the manual gearbox (without Sport Chrono function only in 1st and 2nd gears) and in the manual setting for Tiptronic transmission.
The so-called dash pot is executed less smoothly and with less emphasis on comfort. This means that the throttle closes fasterwhen released. The result is a heightened, “racing-like” engine dynamic.
Sport mode allows the extreme driver to deliberately direct PSM interventions away from driving stability and more towards agility and driving dynamics, without having to sacrifice PSM support in emergency situations.
In addition PASM is automatically switched to its sport setting. This results in harder damping and therefore more spontaneity when steering into corners. Body movements are noticeably reduced, improving road contact. Agility and driving pleasure, particularly on circuits, are also increased and overall driving stability in extreme driving situations improved.
In addition there are the indivdual memory settings for:
DRL
Wipers
Comfort lighting duration adjustable from 10 seconds to120 seconds
• Automatic climate control: save basic setting (e.g. 73°F, fan set to maximum output and defrost on)
• Unlocking opens all doors or just the driver's door
• Autolock: off, on upon ignition or active after moving off
04-01-2005, 11:16 PM
#43
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by RonCT
And as to modifying the car - If you read up on warranty law here in the US, auto companies cannot void warranty on things like brake pads, intake, exhaust, cpu adjustments (like Shark), etc. It is not possible for something like an adjustment to throttle linkage timing (oem throttle vs. Shark / Sport) to impact the car and therefore the warranty. Now if you were talking about changing cams, that's a whole other matter and could void the warranty (maybe - if they could prove your new cams directly and negatively impacted the engine).
04-02-2005, 10:57 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by rss997
Quit ripping on people for their personal preferences, to each his own.
It's good to have _informed_ opinions that counter our own.
