What car would (realistically please!) make you consider chopping in your 997?
02-05-2005, 11:02 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Nick
Get ill! Do you really believe Porsche is about luxury, exclusivity and the whole package? Porsche's are a dime a dozen. They are more plentiful than the Z06 and probably Corvettes. The 997 looks like a 993 and the new 986 which is cheaper by almost $40,000. The new 997 has a marginally upgraded interior from the cheap looking 996 interior.
Resale values of Porsches in the US are abysmal. As soon as you take delivery of a Porsche you experience a minimum 10% depreciation.If you factor in depreciation Porsche is probably the most expensive sport car on the planet.
The only thing Porsche gives you is performance BUT only if you are willing to pay for it. The S with a modicum of options will run close to $100,000. The standard 997 has the same performance as the 996. The base Corvette C6 ($47,000) runs circles (Car & Driver used the verb trounce) around the 997 S and the base 997 could not outperform the $40,000 350Z.
So where is the total package?
Resale values of Porsches in the US are abysmal. As soon as you take delivery of a Porsche you experience a minimum 10% depreciation.If you factor in depreciation Porsche is probably the most expensive sport car on the planet.
The only thing Porsche gives you is performance BUT only if you are willing to pay for it. The S with a modicum of options will run close to $100,000. The standard 997 has the same performance as the 996. The base Corvette C6 ($47,000) runs circles (Car & Driver used the verb trounce) around the 997 S and the base 997 could not outperform the $40,000 350Z.
So where is the total package?
At least you're consistent...
02-05-2005, 11:33 PM
#17
Pro
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Amsterdam, NL
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gentle people,
everybody has his own idea about cars. Don't bitch on somebody else's choice. As said, they are all in another league. I have been driving a Corvette, great car, great torque at very low rpm, nice drive. I drive a 997 (yes, no S), and the drive is totally different. It is just another league. Don't compare a Magnum with a RR or a Lambo with a Corvette or a Subaru with a M5. As soon as we start to talk about taste, bang for the $'s, we will loose the discussion pretty fast. Every league has a winner and in our league it is the Porsche, as we have one :-)
Back to the subject: I sadly forgot to mention the Carrera GT. I have seen an Enzo and sat in it. I didn't had the opportunity with the Carrera GT, yet. Need to see and feel one.
everybody has his own idea about cars. Don't bitch on somebody else's choice. As said, they are all in another league. I have been driving a Corvette, great car, great torque at very low rpm, nice drive. I drive a 997 (yes, no S), and the drive is totally different. It is just another league. Don't compare a Magnum with a RR or a Lambo with a Corvette or a Subaru with a M5. As soon as we start to talk about taste, bang for the $'s, we will loose the discussion pretty fast. Every league has a winner and in our league it is the Porsche, as we have one :-)
Back to the subject: I sadly forgot to mention the Carrera GT. I have seen an Enzo and sat in it. I didn't had the opportunity with the Carrera GT, yet. Need to see and feel one.
02-05-2005, 11:50 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Robert Santangelo
Get a clue dude...
If you get the S with a few options you are looking at 85k. I drove one set up for 83k and it was awesome. You don't need all the options and bells and whistles. That car for 85k is worth the little bit more than a Z06 in every way shape and form. 70k for Z06 reportedly....I suppose you will tell me that a GT3 is dumb at 110k over a Z06 too!
I agree, my old 996 was cheap inside but even at that it was nicer than the piece of crap interior and quality of a Vette. My 2000 996 still had people coming up to it and saying wow! I doubt any Vette except for a classic would do the same...GM sucks at interior fit and finish and always will!
The 997 is a ton better in interior quality and you must not know what you are talking about on this one. Everyone I know has said that my new 997 looks like a million bucks inside compared to my old one.Compare the 997 interior to the Vette...laughable.
You must be crazy to think that Porsche's are the only ones to go down 10% when you drive them off the lot! You better learn your facts before spouting off at the mouth about values too. If you buy one with bells and whistles you will get hurt more than a base car. I lost 7k on my 996 over 2 years of ownership.....Does not seem like a resale problem to me, I sold it the 1st week!
If you are worried about losing money on a new car than you should move to Northern Cal and buy a bike for you travels...
Looks like a lot of people are willing to pay for Porsche performance and luxury as evidenced by the sales figures.The 997 is totallly different than the 996. Maybe you should drive both before making such off base statements.
If you get the S with a few options you are looking at 85k. I drove one set up for 83k and it was awesome. You don't need all the options and bells and whistles. That car for 85k is worth the little bit more than a Z06 in every way shape and form. 70k for Z06 reportedly....I suppose you will tell me that a GT3 is dumb at 110k over a Z06 too!
I agree, my old 996 was cheap inside but even at that it was nicer than the piece of crap interior and quality of a Vette. My 2000 996 still had people coming up to it and saying wow! I doubt any Vette except for a classic would do the same...GM sucks at interior fit and finish and always will!
The 997 is a ton better in interior quality and you must not know what you are talking about on this one. Everyone I know has said that my new 997 looks like a million bucks inside compared to my old one.Compare the 997 interior to the Vette...laughable.
You must be crazy to think that Porsche's are the only ones to go down 10% when you drive them off the lot! You better learn your facts before spouting off at the mouth about values too. If you buy one with bells and whistles you will get hurt more than a base car. I lost 7k on my 996 over 2 years of ownership.....Does not seem like a resale problem to me, I sold it the 1st week!
If you are worried about losing money on a new car than you should move to Northern Cal and buy a bike for you travels...
Looks like a lot of people are willing to pay for Porsche performance and luxury as evidenced by the sales figures.The 997 is totallly different than the 996. Maybe you should drive both before making such off base statements.
I cannot speak to your resale value but anyone in the know recognizes that a Porsche value fallings faster than a rock. Many owners of 996's would love to get out of it but cannot do so. Those who have leases have taken huge losses and turned their cars.
The 997 sales figures are not in but I do know that they are being discounted in many locations in the US. In Europe, Porsche is offering substantial discounts to those that turn their 996 in for a 997.
Regarding performance the 997 and 997 S fall behind the new Corvette C6 ( which is not in dispute) let alone the Z06. The Z06 is targeted to be priced around $65,000 and would eat your S up like it was standing still.
Now what additional facts do you want to address?
02-05-2005, 11:59 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Nick you make me laugh! My recollection on SoCal that F cars are two a penny whereas "America's Sports Car" the Z06 is pretty rare by comparison.
I'm sure you can find a Kleenex in the carbon fiber tissue holder in you Pepper.
I'm sure you can find a Kleenex in the carbon fiber tissue holder in you Pepper.
02-06-2005, 12:25 AM
#20
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by Nick
Reread your prior post and tell me you did not intend to denigrate a better performing car like the C6. If you choose to have your head up Porsche's butt that is your choice. They have made a ton of money off people like you. You buy with your heart and not your head like many on this board. Porsche is NOTHING special. It is a MASS PRODUCED overpriced sport car which is being built by a company which builds more SUV's.
I cannot speak to your resale value but anyone in the know recognizes that a Porsche value fallings faster than a rock. Many owners of 996's would love to get out of it but cannot do so. Those who have leases have taken huge losses and turned their cars.
The 997 sales figures are not in but I do know that they are being discounted in many locations in the US. In Europe, Porsche is offering substantial discounts to those that turn their 996 in for a 997.
Regarding performance the 997 and 997 S fall behind the new Corvette C6 ( which is not in dispute) let alone the Z06. The Z06 is targeted to be priced around $65,000 and would eat your S up like it was standing still.
Now what additional facts do you want to address?
I cannot speak to your resale value but anyone in the know recognizes that a Porsche value fallings faster than a rock. Many owners of 996's would love to get out of it but cannot do so. Those who have leases have taken huge losses and turned their cars.
The 997 sales figures are not in but I do know that they are being discounted in many locations in the US. In Europe, Porsche is offering substantial discounts to those that turn their 996 in for a 997.
Regarding performance the 997 and 997 S fall behind the new Corvette C6 ( which is not in dispute) let alone the Z06. The Z06 is targeted to be priced around $65,000 and would eat your S up like it was standing still.
Now what additional facts do you want to address?
02-06-2005, 12:38 AM
#21
Rennlist Member
I'll address some facts:
In the recent Road & Track article the 997S beat the C6 in the following:
0-20, 0-40, 0-60, and 0-80
Quarter Mile
Slalom
Braking 60-0
Braking 80-0
The only reason the Corvette won the competition was because of it's price. Yeah, the bang for the buck is great...but it's a Chevrolet and not a Porsche. In La Jolla Porsche's might be a time a dozen, but they aren't here in Colorado or many other places in the states. I'd personally rather pay $90K for a 997S than $55K for a C6 anyday of the week, even though the C6 comes with a free pair of fuzzy dice and a 3 pack of hanes white tank tops with purchase.
In the recent Road & Track article the 997S beat the C6 in the following:
0-20, 0-40, 0-60, and 0-80
Quarter Mile
Slalom
Braking 60-0
Braking 80-0
The only reason the Corvette won the competition was because of it's price. Yeah, the bang for the buck is great...but it's a Chevrolet and not a Porsche. In La Jolla Porsche's might be a time a dozen, but they aren't here in Colorado or many other places in the states. I'd personally rather pay $90K for a 997S than $55K for a C6 anyday of the week, even though the C6 comes with a free pair of fuzzy dice and a 3 pack of hanes white tank tops with purchase.
02-06-2005, 04:02 AM
#24
For the record, I live on the west coast and purchased my 997S at one of the biggest well known Bay Area Dealerships which to my knowledge gets a good allocation of Porsches each month (A yellow Carrera GT just arrived there last week) and not 1 single 997 or 997S is available for sale. This dealership by the way sells this model at MSRP (no discounts). I don't see a lack of demand for this modal at all, at least not on the West Coast. I hope the C6 is leaps and bounds better than the C5 because I bought a first year C5 in 1997 and had more than a dozen visits to the dealership for recalls, fenders that didn't line up properly, thin leather on the seats that prematurely were worn at 8000 miles, clutch that chattered and had a burnt smell when you steped on it, run flats that were good for.....nothing, loud fuel pumps, wind noise comming from my driver side window doing more than 70mph........the list goes on and on. HOWEVER, GM improved this model as the years went on, and when I visited the factory in Bowling Green Kentucky in '98 our tour guide informed us that the head hancho who ran operations at the plant had convinced GM to purchase 2 PORSCHE 911's which were on display at the factory(and disassembled) so workers could study and attain the quality and excellence of craftmanship that goes into these cars. Personally I don't see a comparison between the Corvette and the Porsche and truely believe that the best "bargain" is sitting in my garage today with 2600 miles and NO issues or complaints. Not bad for a first year model run. Cheers! 
02-06-2005, 04:20 AM
#25
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Carlsbad, Ca.
Posts: 1,425
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nick,
Porsche sells more SUV's...And what does GM sell the most of...sports cars?
Oh I forgot that the Vette is not mass produced...thanks for the secret information....
People like you make the rest of us look like Einstein...Thanks for the laughs!
Porsche sells more SUV's...And what does GM sell the most of...sports cars?
Oh I forgot that the Vette is not mass produced...thanks for the secret information....
People like you make the rest of us look like Einstein...Thanks for the laughs!
02-06-2005, 04:44 AM
#26
Burning Brakes
Not to jump into 997 land but I've got to say my peace. I don't know of any '96 vettes going for mid $30's, yet my '96 993 with 80,000 miles could still get that. Oh BTW it still runs like new, turns heads everywhere I go and most of the "average Joes" on the street think the car is 2 years old not 8!!!! Can you say that about an 8 year old vette?? I think not.
Don't get me wrong I think the Z06's are nice and the new one coming out has me thinking about picking one up. But it's no Porsche. Performance numbers aren't everything, if they were I'd be driving an $30,000 STI or EVO. Porsches have soul, that intangible something that you can't describe you just feel, there is no way you can say they aren't special. The brand is an icon in the industry.
Don't get me wrong I think the Z06's are nice and the new one coming out has me thinking about picking one up. But it's no Porsche. Performance numbers aren't everything, if they were I'd be driving an $30,000 STI or EVO. Porsches have soul, that intangible something that you can't describe you just feel, there is no way you can say they aren't special. The brand is an icon in the industry.
02-06-2005, 05:42 AM
#27
Instructor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Northumberland, UK
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Nick
The 997 sales figures are not in but I do know that they are being discounted in many locations in the US. In Europe, Porsche is offering substantial discounts to those that turn their 996 in for a 997.
think you are little mis-informed on the European situation - here in the UK there is at least a 12 month wait list for 997's - a situation which, as far as I can tell from colleagues, is replicated throughout Europe - and no-one I've talked to is aware of any "discounts" irrespective of what car is "turned in".
02-06-2005, 10:03 AM
#28
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Originally Posted by Nick
. You buy with your heart and not your head like many on this board. Porsche is NOTHING special. It is a MASS PRODUCED overpriced sport car which is being built by a company which builds more SUV's.
Now what additional facts do you want to address?
Now what additional facts do you want to address?
Last edited by DJF1; 02-06-2005 at 11:49 AM.
02-06-2005, 10:35 AM
#29
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 438
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh... the ol' and always fun car 1 vs car 2 ordeal... I know Vette drivers do not care for Porsches and Porsche drivers do not care for Vettes... but can't we all get along?!
Anyways. The 997 S is an incredibly car right in the middle of performance and comfort. All the numbers and tests I have read put it VERY close to the performance of the 996 GT3, albeit both cars deliver the performance using slightly different approach.
If you do not want a ride that, first and most importantly, it is a driver's car and has awesome performance but is not that extreme for daily driving... I think there is nothing like the 997 S. The 997TT will no doubt outperform the 997 S but I do not like 4WDs in general. Just my preference.
I would not consider anything else than Porsche and Ferrari for a true sports car though... why? I think they both "get it" better than any other car make, save only BMW and the M3.
My .02 cents...
Anyways. The 997 S is an incredibly car right in the middle of performance and comfort. All the numbers and tests I have read put it VERY close to the performance of the 996 GT3, albeit both cars deliver the performance using slightly different approach.
If you do not want a ride that, first and most importantly, it is a driver's car and has awesome performance but is not that extreme for daily driving... I think there is nothing like the 997 S. The 997TT will no doubt outperform the 997 S but I do not like 4WDs in general. Just my preference.
I would not consider anything else than Porsche and Ferrari for a true sports car though... why? I think they both "get it" better than any other car make, save only BMW and the M3.
My .02 cents...
02-06-2005, 11:36 AM
#30
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by ELUSIVE
I'll address some facts:
In the recent Road & Track article the 997S beat the C6 in the following:
0-20, 0-40, 0-60, and 0-80
Quarter Mile
Slalom
Braking 60-0
Braking 80-0
The only reason the Corvette won the competition was because of it's price. Yeah, the bang for the buck is great...but it's a Chevrolet and not a Porsche. In La Jolla Porsche's might be a time a dozen, but they aren't here in Colorado or many other places in the states. I'd personally rather pay $90K for a 997S than $55K for a C6 anyday of the week, even though the C6 comes with a free pair of fuzzy dice and a 3 pack of hanes white tank tops with purchase.
In the recent Road & Track article the 997S beat the C6 in the following:
0-20, 0-40, 0-60, and 0-80
Quarter Mile
Slalom
Braking 60-0
Braking 80-0
The only reason the Corvette won the competition was because of it's price. Yeah, the bang for the buck is great...but it's a Chevrolet and not a Porsche. In La Jolla Porsche's might be a time a dozen, but they aren't here in Colorado or many other places in the states. I'd personally rather pay $90K for a 997S than $55K for a C6 anyday of the week, even though the C6 comes with a free pair of fuzzy dice and a 3 pack of hanes white tank tops with purchase.
Thanks Elusive, that's the article I read also.