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As a couple have mentioned, those #5 and #6 over revs happened at hour 845. Car now has 1541 hours (almost 700 hours later). If the engine was going to fail it would be within the first 50 hours after a 5 or 6 over rev. Car is likely completely fine although the DME report will detract someone from buying the car from you.
Even if the over revs were a long time ago the problem is when you go to sell, the same issues will come up with such a poor Over Rev report which is something I wouldn't want to deal with. Similar to bad accident history.
BTW - Where are the Bore Scope Inspection photos? Import part opf the PPI on these cars.
Last edited by groovzilla; Nov 10, 2024 at 10:44 AM.
3s and 4s are more recent and there's a ton of them in general. This car has lived a hard life and seen a lot of track time. There are plenty of better ones out there where you don't have to get one that's has this history. Be like marrying an ex **** star who has been out of the business for 5 years (it was a long time ago so it's fine now LOL)
Even if the over revs were a long time ago the problem is when you go to sell, the same issues will come up with such a poor Over Rev report which is something I wouldn't want to deal with. Similar to bad accident history.
BTW - Where are the Bore Scope Inspection photos? Import part opf the PPI on these cars.
I did not request bore scope photos. I found a very reputable Porsche specialist mechanic (per this forum) to perform the PPI and went with their recommendations. They had the car for several days and performed driving tests, reporting no smoke on startup and no weird ticks/noises/etc. Their concern for bore scoring was very low.
Seems like everyone agrees this car has been driven aggressively. About half of people would pass and the other half would consider it only if the car was priced accordingly. Because my plans are to keep the car and eventually rebuild the engine anyways, resell value is not my greatest concern, but I understand why people would be apprehensive.
I appreciate everyone's input. I think the car currently priced a little high based on what you guys are saying, so I'm going to negotiate with the seller. If they come down on the price, I'll probably take it, otherwise I'll pass.
Seems like everyone agrees this car has been driven aggressively. About half of people would pass and the other half would consider it only if the car was priced accordingly. Because my plans are to keep the car and eventually rebuild the engine anyways, resell value is not my greatest concern, but I understand why people would be apprehensive.
I appreciate everyone's input. I think the car currently priced a little high based on what you guys are saying, so I'm going to negotiate with the seller. If they come down on the price, I'll probably take it, otherwise I'll pass.
This is Rennlist. Making any post will result in some people saying your car will explode at any minute and others saying everything is perfectly fine. Your plan is a prudent one. If you are going to eventually rebuild the engine it won't matter, the engine will end up being far better than it ever was day one.
This thread isn't about bore scoring and there are plenty of other threads on it. But bore scoring is real and an invasive inspection should be part of any PPI for a car you want to be absolutely sure about. If you want to pass on that and take the risk at least get an oil analysis which is cheap and easy and would let you know if you could have an issue. Good luck with the purchase....
I did not request bore scope photos. I found a very reputable Porsche specialist mechanic (per this forum) to perform the PPI and went with their recommendations. They had the car for several days and performed driving tests, reporting no smoke on startup and no weird ticks/noises/etc. Their concern for bore scoring was very low.
Any Porsche Indy should be recommending a Bore Scope Inspection on a 997.1 and IMO a 997.2.
To suggest listening to the engine and hearing no ticks or noises isn't how to check for Bore Scoring.
2 997's I PPI's/Bore Scoped and had scoring ran fine with no smoke on startup, no noises, no soot on tailpipes because they had most likely been cleaned.
A $250-$300 Bore Scope thru spark plug holes IMO is a smart preventative measure.
Even if the over revs were a long time ago the problem is when you go to sell, the same issues will come up with such a poor Over Rev report which is something I wouldn't want to deal with. Similar to bad accident history.
BTW - Where are the Bore Scope Inspection photos? Import part opf the PPI on these cars.
This. You have a DME report and no Borescope - that’s a double whammy as we say over in the UK. When you come to sell it’ll be very difficult, moreso if there are scratches in the bores that you’re currently ignorant of. Pass - walk away - moon walk. Don’t do it.
Just for a bit of clarity, a 911 will always be a 911. I personally feel that they are almost always worth saving (within reason).
Its an iconic car regardless of age or generation, some generations are more sought after and some are not as popular.
I prefer cars that age well with you, the 911 certainly fits that bill.
Its why I am in general, a bit forgiving with these cars, especially with a buyer who is going into it with both eyes open.
To add to your thoughtful assessment, almost EVERY Porsche 911 model including the 356 had issues.
Here's a quick down and dirty most certainly incomplete list:
356 - Poor cooling resulting in engine in most cases(Pardon Pun) needing rebuild within 75-85K miles. Aluminum oil cooler suggested Early 911's - Had fuel injection issues 75-77 911S - Broken headstuds, poor transmission sycros resulting in top end engine rebuild and transmission rebuild 78-1983 911SC - Broken headstuds, poor transmission syncros, poor chain tensioners resulting in top end engine rebuild and transmission rebuild 84-86 911 Carrera - Poor valve guides requiring head rebuild 1989-1992 964 - Major oil leaks due to no case seal - Top end engine rebuild required and most always complete engine rebuild 1995-1998 993 - Engine head air passages become clogged, therefore not passing emissions on post 1995 OB11 and require top end engine rebuilt - 1995's run like crap when heads are clogged but will pass emissions 1999-2003 996 - IMS issues requiring IMS replacement 2005 997 - IMS failures requiring engine rebuild or replace IMS Bearing prior to failure 2005-2008 997 - Low % of Bore Scoring requiring engine rebuild - Auto transmission problems requiring sensor replacement or rebuild. 2009-2012 997 small % of Bore Scoring " ' " " - Auto Transmission problems " " " " "
Last edited by groovzilla; Nov 10, 2024 at 07:30 PM.
To add to your thoughtful assessment, almost EVERY Porsche 911 model including the 356 had issues.
Here's a quick down and dirty most certainly incomplete list:
356 - Poor cooling resulting in engine in most cases(Pardon Pun) needing rebuild within 75-85K miles. Aluminum oil cooler suggested Early 911's - Had fuel injection issues 75-77 911S - Broken headstuds, poor transmission sycros resulting in top end engine rebuild and transmission rebuild 78-1983 911SC - Broken headstuds, poor transmission syncros, poor chain tensioners resulting in top end engine rebuild and transmission rebuild 84-86 911 Carrera - Poor valve guides requiring head rebuild 1989-1992 964 - Major oil leaks due to no case seal - Top end engine rebuild required and most always complete engine rebuild 1995-1998 993 - Engine head air passages become clogged, therefore not passing emissions on post 1995 OB11 and require top end engine rebuilt - 1995's run like crap when heads are clogged but will pass emissions 1999-2003 996 - IMS issues requiring IMS replacement 2005 997 - IMS failures requiring engine rebuild or replace IMS Bearing prior to failure 2005-2008 997 - Low % of Bore Scoring requiring engine rebuild - Auto transmission problems requiring sensor replacement or rebuild. 2009-2012 997 small % of Bore Scoring " ' " " - Auto Transmission problems " " " " "
Agreed, and what is funny each of those past generations went through a cycle of time/people who would "give up" on the car and sell it for pennies on the dollar to avoid the associated costs with fixing those issues until the values/desirability increased.
Now if you have for instance a 993 with top-end engine issue, you have it fixed in most scenarios and keep the car.
The 997 is currently in this cycle. The 997.1 generation has officially made its way into the classic Porsche realm, however due to the availability of cars and its lower entry price (for now) some people quickly sell and move on.
The 997 desirability is improving each day but market valuations have lagged due to economic disruptions (Covid/inflation). I think based of past history that the 997 generation (997.1/997.2) will dramatically increase in value over the next 10-15yrs (especially in a healthy economy). Making these 25-35K rebuilds (if done correctly Slakker/LN etc) valuable in the future.
In the shorter term the 991.1 will become the lower entry 911 and fill the current cycle the 997.1 is seeing now.
Its history, as we all know, it has a high probability of repeating itself. Im betting on the 997 generation.
(Another reason I am a bit more flexible with my overall opinions when someone is looking to keep/purchase one of these cars long-term)
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