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On the non-Bose, the center channel is kind of a weird sized ~2.5" full range speaker (at least, on the 9X7.2). Mine was trashed from the sun but I couldn't find anything aftermarket that would drop in.
Ended up using the Sundown Audio SA-2.75 FR V2 ($60/pr). It's a full-range speaker that fit with some modification: it's okay in X and Y but way too deep. I used a Dremel with a 90-degree adapter and a cutting bit to *very carefully* cut away the plastic under where the speaker mounts to make room. Then I ground the mounting holes on the speaker inwards about 3mm and was able to mount it using the existing holes, screws, and cover plate.
Suncoast has the OEM dash speaker if you just want to replace it like-for-like. If you're playing anything with 5.1 audio then putting a tweeter there would not be a good idea. For standard stereo, though, I'm not quite sure how that speaker is utilized so not sure what the impact would be.
Thinking about this some more - I believe the ASK amp powers the center dash speaker. When I replaced the ASK amp with the Alpine amplifier, I'm only powering the 8" door woofers now, so I believe my center dash speaker is not providing any sound. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
As to the discussions above on the need for a sub-woofer, I had to turn down the bass, and turn bass boost off, as otherwise the 8-inch S2 Alpines were rattling the glass.
I also had to turn down some of the higher freqs as the Alpine tweeters were just doing too much work as well.
Yep, that was my finding as well on the bass: you do NOT need an extra sub with two properly set up 8" woofers. Interestingly I found I had to turn up the treble slightly with the same tweeters.
Originally Posted by Wcube
Thinking about this some more - I believe the ASK amp powers the center dash speaker. When I replaced the ASK amp with the Alpine amplifier, I'm only powering the 8" door woofers now, so I believe my center dash speaker is not providing any sound. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
On the 9x7.1 with the ASK amp the door midrange and dash tweeters are fed by the receiver, the door woofers and center speaker are powered by the ASK amp. On the 9x7.2 all the speakers go through the ASK amp.
I'm gonna be honest: I've got aftermarket removal pliers just like those and I've never gotten it to work right on the door panels on my 987. By the time I pull the card out enough to see the pin and get the tool on one it's usually just popped out on its own. So I always end up just brute forcing it starting at the lower rear corner.
Yes, as when you look at the drawing of the Porsche tool, it has a nose perhaps three times longer than the general plug removal tool?
I note perhaps, due to the location of the plugs - further in from the edge - than perhaps the average fitting, getting a shorted tool in would create this conflict?
Originally Posted by nate5150
I am about to be pulling both door cards on my 987.1 very soon and this thread and especially the recent posts are extremely helpful. I did order a pin puller tool from Amazon so we will see if that helps. I will definitely follow the order of removal to see if it helps me. I also ordered 30 replacement clips just in case I break any.
There are only nine plugs per side, so you should be fine!
You might also try flattening the bend on the nose of the pliers, to allow them to get further in under the door card - as per the diagram above?
Originally Posted by Wcube
Hello Nate, my car is a 2006 997.1, non-Bose. Speaker upgrade is definitely worth it - the bass from the 8" woofers alone is a big difference maker. Make sure you order the Alpine component speakers for both the 8" and 4" for the fronts. You'll end up with a couple of unused tweeters, but the system will sound a lot better.
The S2 series S40 (4-inch) and S80 (8-inch) both come with either the 'C' suffix or without?
This is I think the inclusion of the tweeter set or not?
Thus, just buy one C-suffix set, and there's no un-used hardware?
The speakers - at least from my readings - are the same?
Originally Posted by Wcube
Thanks for this - I didn't even tackle the center dash speaker yet, so a tweeter there to match would make sense. I'm going to investigate. Kuro, what did you do with the center dash speaker?
As I was not replacing the native ASK amp, I've left it in place.
It's not faulty, clean, and appear to be working slightly with whatever ASK driver is giving it.
I cleaned the foam off the grille when I was installing my wi-fi and GPS antenna, it looked OK!
Also, I am unable to modify their control or range via my Atoto, so that's another reason why I left as-is.
I've also left the rear set of 4-inch in place too.
For now at least.
Originally Posted by MrMoose
On the non-Bose, the center channel is kind of a weird sized ~2.5" full range speaker (at least, on the 9X7.2). Mine was trashed from the sun but I couldn't find anything aftermarket that would drop in.
Ended up using the Sundown Audio SA-2.75 FR V2 ($60/pr). It's a full-range speaker that fit with some modification: it's okay in X and Y but way too deep. I used a Dremel with a 90-degree adapter and a cutting bit to *very carefully* cut away the plastic under where the speaker mounts to make room. Then I ground the mounting holes on the speaker inwards about 3mm and was able to mount it using the existing holes, screws, and cover plate.
Suncoast has the OEM dash speaker if you just want to replace it like-for-like. If you're playing anything with 5.1 audio then putting a tweeter there would not be a good idea. For standard stereo, though, I'm not quite sure how that speaker is utilized so not sure what the impact would be.
This makes sense.
I had thought it was a 70mm (2.75 inch) though?
I need to check!
Originally Posted by MrMoose
Yep, that was my finding as well on the bass: you do NOT need an extra sub with two properly set up 8" woofers. Interestingly I found I had to turn up the treble slightly with the same tweeters.
Yeah, the base is awesome!
On the tweeters, it might be because I did not install the in-line crossovers, merely the straight feed?
It's an easy job to drop in, but I was unsure of the space in the hole, and the crossovers floating around, unsecured in there...
Notably too, as they are fed from the amp, and not the woofer in parallel as suggested by the Alpine application note.
Originally Posted by MrMoose
On the 9x7.2 all the speakers go through the ASK amp.
Correct, at least in accordance with the 9X7.2 wiring diagram above, this was my understanding too, and the reason I went about replacing and wiring as I did...
Hello Kuro, I installed the in-line resistor for the tweeters, which are connected in parallel with the 4" door midrange speakers. I originally installed the co-axial version of the 4" door speakers, but didn't like how bright the sound was with the door tweeters as well as the dash tweeters. I also figured that the tweeters were seeing 2 ohm resistance when connected this way, that's why I switched to the component version of the 4" speakers. That way, the speakers are connected as intended by Alpine.
The S2-S40 in your picture is a two-way speaker. If you put those in the doors you would need to disconnect the dash tweeters, as they are already parallel-wired to the midrange speakers in the door. The problem with that is you generally want the tweeters up high, so the dash is a better location.
Originally Posted by Kuro Neko
On the tweeters, it might be because I did not install the in-line crossovers, merely the straight feed?
It's an easy job to drop in, but I was unsure of the space in the hole, and the crossovers floating around, unsecured in there...
Notably too, as they are fed from the amp, and not the woofer in parallel as suggested by the Alpine application note.
The Alpine document is how you'd hook them up in parallel if you had a single channel feeding both the 8" and the tweeter. On the 9X7.2 the large door woofer is on its own channel and the door midrange and dash tweeter are wired in parallel on a separate channel. So you'd just use the existing car wiring and not run an additional wire direct from the woofer to the tweeter.
You REALLY want to install those crossovers on the tweeter. If you look, the stock tweeters have a capacitor on them that serves as a 7kHz high pass filter, the same frequency cutofff as those capacitors that came with the Alpines. If you don't install those on your new tweeters. they'll see low frequency signals that can damage them.
The S2-S40 in your picture is a two-way speaker. If you put those in the doors you would need to disconnect the dash tweeters, as they are already parallel-wired to the midrange speakers in the door. The problem with that is you generally want the tweeters up high, so the dash is a better location.
The Alpine document is how you'd hook them up in parallel if you had a single channel feeding both the 8" and the tweeter. On the 9X7.2 the large door woofer is on its own channel and the door midrange and dash tweeter are wired in parallel on a separate channel. So you'd just use the existing car wiring and not run an additional wire direct from the woofer to the tweeter.
You REALLY want to install those crossovers on the tweeter. If you look, the stock tweeters have a capacitor on them that serves as a 7kHz high pass filter, the same frequency cutofff as those capacitors that came with the Alpines. If you don't install those on your new tweeters. they'll see low frequency signals that can damage them.
Ahhh... I get it now.
I should have used these in the doors:
... with these, or the tweeters that came with the S80 set... I get the extra tweeter bit now!
Regardless, it seems I can correct half my rookie error by adding the inline filters to the dash tweeters to start, as the co-axial 4-inch S40 have them already fitted?
Ahhh... I get it now.
I should have used these in the doors:
... with these, or the tweeters that came with the S80 set... I get the extra tweeter bit now!
Regardless, it seems I can correct half my rookie error by adding the inline filters to the dash tweeters to start, as the co-axial 4-inch S40 have them already fitted?
Thanks!
Yes, add the resistors. It seems like they won't fit, but they will.
Note that they're not resistors, they're capacitors. And yes, you should install them and tuck them into the dash, it's tight but they'll fit. The coaxial S2-S40 speakers have the capacitor for the tweeter built-in.
The 4" door speaker situation gets a bit more complicated. Again, if you look at the stock midrange speaker it has a 100uF capacitor attached to it that serves as a 400Hz high-pass filter (it cuts bass below 400Hz). The Alpine 4" doesn't have this.
The 4" Alpine is designed to handle a full-range signal so it won't get damaged without it, but without some sort of cutoff there's the potential for frequency overlap with the 8" speaker. This can potentially cause some weird cancellation or amplification issues below 400Hz depending on where you measure in the car. So, in theory, if you replace the 4" speakers while maintaining the stock ASK amp you should install a ~400Hz cutoff on them. Crutchfield sells 300Hz high pass bass blockers, or you can do what I did and buy some 100uF 25V electrolytic capacitors on Amazon and install one in series to each of the 4" speakers (they're polarized caps so polarity matters: connect the + terminal of the capacitor to the incoming + speaker wire and then connect the - terminal of the cap to the speaker's + terminal).
How important this actually is in practice I don't know, but since I was only replacing the speakers I tried to keep other stuff as close to the stock setup as possible (speaker impedance, size, and cutoffs). Again, this is only if you're keeping the stock ASK amp and wiring; with other amps it depends on how you wire the speakers and the cutoff options built into the amp.
@Wcube and @MrMoose , thanks both as I've pulled the dash tweeters out, and am now adding the in-line capacitors.
There's way too much wire in combo with the existing tails on the tweeters, so will take about 30cm out of the length, with enough to allow the capacitors to be tucked in the hole accordingly.
As noted too, the Alpine capacitor is in-line with the positive feed, and I will report how it sounds.
With the coaxial tweeters in the door, and the unfiltered dash tweeters, no wonder I had so much high-end fill.
Hopefully, the different location and properly configured four tweeter set sounds OK, as if not the non-coaxial, component 4-inch set might be needed...
@Wcube and @MrMoose , thanks both as I've pulled the dash tweeters out, and am now adding the in-line capacitors.
There's way too much wire in combo with the existing tails on the tweeters, so will take about 30cm out of the length, with enough to allow the capacitors to be tucked in the hole accordingly.
As noted too, the Alpine capacitor is in-line with the positive feed, and I will report how it sounds.
With the coaxial tweeters in the door, and the unfiltered dash tweeters, no wonder I had so much high-end fill.
Hopefully, the different location and properly configured four tweeter set sounds OK, as if not the non-coaxial, component 4-inch set might be needed...
I was actually contemplating snipping the wires to the coaxials as a 'budget' fix, but ultimately decided to purchase the component 4" set as the correct fix. Good luck.
@Wcube thanks again, and to conclude I've added the Alpine supplied inline tweeter filters, and confirm - after resetting my eq - the sound is so much better!
The previous excessive high-end fill that I had to turn down has gone, and the balance, segregation, and range of the whole car is now also a step up from previous - itself, many times better than the OEM setup.
Impressed!
Further, I notice the stand-alone inline filter for the tweeters is 5.6μF and the integrated filter for the 4-inch mounted coaxial tweeter is 3.9μF?
The resulting high freq pass through of ~7.2kHz for the dash vs. ~10kHz for the coaxial tweeter on the 4-inch in my doors (at 4Ω), would seem to further provide some appropriate segregation?
Either way, as an audiophile ignorant I am more than happy with the Alpine set, properly configured now, and would recommend it to anyone with either gammy door woofers, or just as a viable upgrade to the non-Bose OEM setup...
The resulting high freq pass through of ~7.2kHz for the dash vs. ~10kHz for the coaxial tweeter on the 4-inch in my doors (at 4Ω), would seem to further provide some appropriate segregation?.
Not really? If I understand your setup you've got the coaxial two way and the extra tweeter wired in parallel, which isn't really ideal. So there's going to be some overlap above 10kHz. How much of a difference it makes I dunno, but if you're happy with the sound then it probably doesn't matter much.
As Wcube said I guess you could cut one of the tweeter wires on the two-ways to make them one-ways, but that would change their impedance, I think, and I'm not sure what the overall impact would be versus just using the non-coaxial Alpines. Maybe you end up in the same place? I'm not an expert on this stuff, though.
Anyway, if you can get it to sound good by tweaking bass and treble then it's probably fine. It's a car, not a sound studio, so there are going to be limitations on how "perfect" you can get the sound anyway. Stick to heavy metal and play it loud and you'll never know is my advice!
Not really? If I understand your setup you've got the coaxial two way and the extra tweeter wired in parallel, which isn't really ideal. So there's going to be some overlap above 10kHz. How much of a difference it makes I dunno, but if you're happy with the sound then it probably doesn't matter much.
As Wcube said I guess you could cut one of the tweeter wires on the two-ways to make them one-ways, but that would change their impedance, I think, and I'm not sure what the overall impact would be versus just using the non-coaxial Alpines. Maybe you end up in the same place? I'm not an expert on this stuff, though.
Anyway, if you can get it to sound good by tweaking bass and treble then it's probably fine. It's a car, not a sound studio, so there are going to be limitations on how "perfect" you can get the sound anyway. Stick to heavy metal and play it loud and you'll never know is my advice!
Kuro, your head unit amplifier may be seeing 2 ohms at the tweeters with the coaxials and dash tweeters wired in parallel. It could be fine, but it could cause an issue with the head unit amplifier if it can't handle a 2 ohm load.
Thanks again both, and I would expect some 10kHz> overlap, yes.
Up that high, from different locations on different angles, it does not seem to create any issues.
My main amp is still the ASK, and it copes OK with both sets of tweeters wired as per factory load in parallel, so I am not concerned there.
If I notice any high-end beating, or funny interference though, I know where to start!
As you note too, it is a car (one with a Carnewal and X-pipe too), so stuck in traffic and expressway cruising are the domain of such - typically a background need in other words...
Hello Kuro, I installed the in-line resistor for the tweeters, which are connected in parallel with the 4" door midrange speakers. I originally installed the co-axial version of the 4" door speakers, but didn't like how bright the sound was with the door tweeters as well as the dash tweeters. I also figured that the tweeters were seeing 2 ohm resistance when connected this way, that's why I switched to the component version of the 4" speakers. That way, the speakers are connected as intended by Alpine.
WCube - I have a 2007 Base Cayman that had the SPP non Bose. I have put in a new sony headunit (avr x6000)
If I bought Alpine S2-S80c and put the 8" in for the bass drivers and the included 1" tweeter in place, as direct replacements.. is the ASK amp going to crap itself or will that sound bad doing it that way? all speakers in the car are still stock at this time but the 8" are both blown so i need to replace.
12-21-2023, 06:58 PM
