hyphonspace

Hello all! Long time fan, first time poster. I just purchased a 2005 997.1 with 63k miles and I’m so stoked to own it because I have always loved this car and now have a job where I could afford the purchase and feel completely comfortable with the normal costs of ownership.

I’ve had the IMS addressed through an LN Engineering fix, so the only thing on my mind now is bore scoring. No issues noted thus far or during inspection, but I know that doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen in the future. So my question is: is it worth rebuilding with Nikasil cylinders now to ensure it isn’t a problem down the road? Or keep an eye out for the signs of scoring and address the problem if it comes up?

I am young, dumb, and far from mechanically inclined, and would be curious to hear the thoughts of more experienced/wiser owners. (And I haven’t spotted this particular debate in my searches of this forum.) Thank you very much in advance for any help provided!

Der Mechaniker

absolutely no need to do anything now. Maybe never

sburke91

Ultimately it's up to you. Based on what I saw when my ~38k mile engine was torn down at FSI after purchasing a stage 2 under the new program, I suspect every M97.01 engine is going to score at some point--no matter what, the coating on the bottom of the pistons is going to break down over time and use. It's a question of when, and how your car was treated before you owned it.

Given the number of miles many of these cars see in a year, with proper treatment (correct oil, frequent oil changes, staying under 3000RPM until the oil is up to temp), you may never experience the effects of bore scoring during your ownership. That said, if you have the time and the funds, rebuilding the engine now (with the right build) both eliminates that potential, and, should you elect to, gives you the option of some easy performance gains 'while you're in there'.

Petza914

Unless you have issues, a preemptive rebuild doesn't make sense.

Take that money and put it in an investment fund and let it grow. If you end up with a scored engine, you have the funds and if you don't, you can buy another one in a few years instead of after a few years, might decide you want a different model like a turbo and can use that money as part of the upgrade fund. I can't think of a reason to spend $30k to fix a problem you don't yet have.

TheMurse

This is exactly the strategy I've chosen. When I bought my 2006 C4 with clean bores I knew a rebuild would happen at some point, hopefully many miles down the road when I had gained the knowledge of the car sufficient to try to tackle the rebuild myself. I invested the engine rebuild fund and I'm letting it grow until such time as it's needed. In the meantime I enjoy my car without stress or anxiety and when the scoring reaper comes for me I'll be ready. The subtext to all of this is that my wife would lose her mind if I immediately cut a check for what I paid for the car in order to rebuild it's engine when it didn't need it.

groovzilla

So from this statement I assume you had a Bore Scope Inspection performed during PPI prior to purchase? Did they provide you with photos of each cylinder and cylinders are clean and they gave you the green light to purchase?

aasilvia

yeah we're gonna need more clarity on what the OP did in terms of inspections and data collection to have a high level of confidence that his 05 C2 doesn't have bore scoring.

that said, assuming this '05 doesn't have bore scoring, definitely get an oil analysis done to start your baseline. oil changes and oil additives (won't expand here to avoid further debate) regularly.

groovzilla

This reminds me of new buyers of early 2004/2005 997 builds who say "Yeah had PPI and IMS is fine".
Then the buyer comes to find out the only way to inspect the IMS is to remove the transmission and do inspection for leaks/etc.

Did OP have IMS Bearing replaced with the LN Engineering replacement?
I'll sit back and wait to hear back and also what OP has to say regarding "No issues noted thus far or during inspection" statement regarding Bore Scope Inspection.
Hopefully he had a Bore Scope Inspection through Spark Plugs with photos of all cylinders which runs an additional $250 during PPI and gives great peace of mind.

hyphonspace

I instructed a mechanic to do a bore scope inspection from the bottom of the cylinder after dropping the oil pan. Unfortunately I wasn’t diligent about requesting or looking through photos, but they said the car was good to go.

hyphonspace

I instructed a mechanic to drop the oil pan and inspect the cylinders from below. I did not personally do any analysis, but the mechanic said it was a green light purchase.

I had not thought to do any kind of oil analysis (part of my own inexperience I suppose) but will make sure to grab a sample when I change the oil. I hear that I should ask for a more viscous oil for this engine as well.

hyphonspace

Hi! I did have an LN Engineering IMS retrofit kit installed. I know the LN Engineering “Solution” kit is more permanent, but I had a connection with a lot of experience doing the retrofits that gave me a great price on the labor involved.

I had an inspection done for the cylinders, but directed them to investigate from the bottom of the cylinder after dropping the oil pan rather than inspecting through the spark plugs (I heard that bore scoring always starts from the bottom of the cylinder)

hyphonspace

I wanted to take a second and sincerely thank all of the responders so far! You guys have been extremely helpful and I cannot emphasize enough how much it is appreciated.

It sounds like the general consensus is that any preemptive work to the cylinders is generally unjustified, and that I would be better off keeping it off my mind until there are actually signs of a problem. It does sound like perhaps I should have put more emphasis on the advance work for this purchase, as many of you have stressed the importance of the quality and thoroughness of the cylinder inspection, as well as the virtue of doing some oil testing/analysis.

In retrospect, perhaps I should adjust my confidence level that the car doesn't have any issues. The mechanic doing the PPI wasn't someone I had worked with before (they were recommended by the seller), as the car was located quite a ways away and I am having it shipped. It wouldn't be a ton of money to have it re-inspected by my mechanic here in my home state, so I will make sure to have it done properly, get oil samples, and have them document their findings thoroughly (with photos). I suppose I now have some anxiety that this is an area I initially checked off my list when I shouldn't have.

It's unfortunate to find out the depths of my ignorance/naivety on some of these subjects, and in hindsight I made some obviously dumb moves while getting the car inspected, but I'm glad that I am becoming more aware of it now rather than coming to grips with it later on. The purchase has already been made, but I can at least move forward with better information on hand. Hopefully I don't come back to this thread reporting any bad news to the contrary of my early assertions.

Again, thank you all for your kindness, patience, and respect. The qualities of the car aside, I think this is the best community of owners around!

groovzilla

I'm not trying to be a ***** here or get you upset but I've never heard of a Porsche shop not including photos of the Cylinders when performing bottom or top Bore Scope Inspection?
The whole point is to review the photos and have all 6 cylinder photos as documentation especially considering the cost involved in going from oil pan.

The seller recommended the Shop for the Inspection? No cylinder photos? This sounds fishy to me. And from reading above it sounds like you did the deal without looking at car in person, correct?
Have you paid for the car? If not I would insist on Bore scope Photos - Sellers shop telling buyer over the phone who lives in another state that the Bores looked great is not kosher.

What was the additional cost for the oil pan removal inspection?

groovzilla

Ok no word back from OP.
I'm guessing his purchase was from afar/never saw the car in person and the Indy shop seller had relationship with the Insy shop(big no-no ) that did the supposed Bore Score Inspection from Oil Pan removal NEVER did the inspection at all. Total scam.
Of course this is just a guess, but when you don't hear back from OP who came to the Forum with questions in the middle of a 997 purchase and then disappears something ain't right.

Makes no sense for a shop to go thru all the labor of removing pan, inspectiong cylinders and providing no photo documentation. Also OP wouldn't provide the cost of the Oil Pan Inspection and disappeared.
Also doesn't make sense for a buyer, who's obviously read up on the IMS issues of early build cars and was proactive in replacing the IMS never asked the PPI shop for photos of the Cylinders?? Who knows, at this point I'm guessing the shop probably didn't even replace the IMS Bearing.

I was going to ask the OP if shop provided him with the new IMS Bearing Serial#?? I guess we'll never know.

akhbhaat

100% this. I strongly, strongly recommend owning and driving the car for a good while before investing a significant amount of money into it (beyond what's needed to keep it running safely). Honeymoon periods have a habit of ending and sometimes your needs, lifestyle, interests, and even tastes change in general. I've had cars I expected to sell after 1-2 years go on to last many years (one of them, which was very literally intended to be a stop-gap, is still in my possession after 14+ years), and I had other cars I was super excited to get into (including one or two "dream" cars) that lasted less than a year.