workhurts

$19k to fix some sticky shift paddles? Seems like there would a cheaper solution unless it was under warranty and the dealer covered it.

almico

So the journey continues…

I dropped off the immobilized module to the dealer last Thursday August 10th. No word for a week. I finally called Wednesday and it appears the immobilized is either not the issue, or not the only issue.

There is a 5A draw going on while the car is off. 5A!! What is up with that? That’s why I bought the new battery because I noticed power going down quickly as the incident day went on.

What the heck can cause a sudden 5A draw out of the blue? The dealer confirmed that it does not appear that there was ever water at any time under the seat of this car. So the electronics never got wet.

anyway, the dealer has no idea what’s wrong. This gives me a weird satisfaction that at least I’m not a moron. There is something very strange going on with this car and no one seems to know what it is.

The good news is the dealer is not clocking into my car while they’re working on it. They’re getting suggestions from here and there with Porsche and then sliding over to my car while being punched into a warrantee car. Good on them and good for me.

ZuffenZeus

Thank you for the update. This is reassuring news that there is at least one honest Porsche dealership that doesn't have a pride issue and willing to admit they don't know, and... that they're not going to nail you for *their* training on the job.

On the other hand, it still surprises me that an official Porsche service center, with all their resources, doesn't have the ability (or knowledge?) to isolate the problem. This is very concerning. I've seen this too many times surrounding no-start issues with these cars. Sometimes, it takes that "one person" in the dealer network that knows how to remedy these issues.

Again, thank you for reporting back. It truly helps the owners here on Rennlist. Please let us know how it works out.

jchapura

I would think that the 5A draw's circuit would be easy to find with the "fuse pull" method. And then, hopefully, that would give some further indication about the "no start".

Petza914

Get an infrared heat gun and shoot all the relays once the car has been shut down for a bit. The relay that is warmer than the others is the circuit with the power draw.

CAVU

What was the resolution on this one: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...997-1-a-2.html If you have a 5 amp draw, your HD 5 amp trickle charger will most likely not keep up with it unless the charger is a smart charger with higher amperage as Petza914 mentioned earlier in the current thread. However that is a band-aid on a festering wound.

Unless you are the original owner, do not rule out that an aftermarket security system, or other after market system was installed at time of purchase or by a previous owner and is now misbehaving. Had one on my Cayenne that I thought might be the culprit to a number of electrical anomalies. Found it, removed it, and all is better.

Do you know which blade fuse the 5 amps is being drawn through?

Has the continuity across each blade fuse to confirm no known blown fuses?

Post #39, the Pin in the power distribution block. Even though the TSB was about corrosion, your pin has what appears to be some discoloration (heat or chemical). I could be wrong. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...56330-2400.pdf

almico

The 5A draw was sudden onset. The old parasitic draw was gone months ago. I haven’t had to use the trickle charger for 2 months of intermittent driving. A 5A draw will kill a battery in an afternoon. This car sat for two days, started perfectly at 7:30 in the morning, drove it for an hour, parked it for two hours, and it was dead, and the draw had already started. Something happened to the car within a few hours on a bright, clear sunny day

almico

modern service centers have become so reliant on scanners to diagnose everything. Problem with this situation is the car won’t turn on so you can scan it. They’re back in the Stone Age now.

almico

Finally got a call from the dealer. It seems it is the starter. When the starter is unplugged, the dash lights up. Go figure. They're letting me buy a Bosch starter for them to put in. $300 instead of $700 after core will take a little sting out of the "unknown at this point" labor bill.

Supposedly it still needed the immobilizer (of course it did). The old one wouldn't take a programming. So hopefully I come out of this with two keys and a car that starts.

Anyone need a kidney?

almico

Just realized I never cleaned up this thread. To recap, just paid a few grand to clean up the dash lights, engine, airbag etc. No lights for a week. Battery good, not tender needed for old parasitic drain issue. Drove it 45 minutes to work on a bright clear day, No rain. Parked it for 2 hours and got back in to run an errand and the key would not turn the car on. Couldn't scan because the car would not turn on. It was like the car didn't recognize the key. Towed home, tried a new ignition switch and a few other things. No bueno. Towed to dealer. 1) Bad immobilizer control module. Replaced, didn't fix. 2)Disconnected starter and the car suddenly came to life. Replaced starter.

All good except the 5A battery draw. 3)Found to be the frunk lock. Replaced that (bumper off again). Everything now works. No drain. No lights. $4500 bill. They had it for 6 weeks.

Me to dealer: "So, you mean to tell me that I can drive the car for 45 minutes, park it for two hours. AND WHILE PARKED: the immobilizer control module, and the starter, and the frunk lock can all take a crap at the same time? Really!? What kind of a POS car is this?

Parked it for the winter on a tender. Of course the battery was dead anyway when I uncovered it this spring. Charged the battery. All good.

Then the other day the oil pressure and oil temp went berserk. Stopped on the road and added 3+ quarts of oil. Monitored it carefully and realized last night that the AOS must have taken a dump. Could I have possibly let the oil slip that much...over the winter when ai did drive it. Something was weird.

So it's back to being an ornament in my driveway. I'd love to drive this car for two months without it costing me $5000.

Now that I'm done venting, I need to replace the AOS. Seems like a job in my wheelhouse. The question is do I buy the $500 worth of connecting hoses in advance? It was blowing oil out the exhaust intermittently as well as maybe leaking some too? For the few days I was driving it I did smell oil. Oil on the bottom of the engine and sprayed around the engine compartment a bit.

Thanks guys!

Petza914

Those gauges going crazy is an indicator that something on your canbus network is out of whack. What aftermarket stuff do you have installed that's tied into the canbus - PCM, stereo, amps, BT connection, 3-axis accelerometer for DSC module, etc - something?

I find it very hard to believe you were 3 quarts low on oil and the gauge is likely misbehaving. I would drain all the oil and put back in 8 quarts. If you have extra oil in the engine it will for sure whip it into a froth and not lubricate the engine and likely damage the AOS and probably spray it all over the engine too.

First thing you should do is verify the oil level is right by draining the sump and putting back 8 quarts, then see how the car behaves.

Changing the ignition switch doens't do anything with the car recognizing the key - that's the immobilizer module which is not part of the ignition switch. The ignition switch is a generic electric switch - you can turn it with a screwdrivers as long as the key with the chip is communicating with the immobilizer module. The grooves in the key only matter for the physical door lock cylinder.

almico

Nothing is connected that hasn't been there for the past two years. Just a Kenwood stereo.

FWIW, I did nothing to it over the winter. It is as it was last year.

I first noticed the issue driving it last week. All of a sudden the oil temp started creeping toward 225 and then beyond. It's normally 205ish. Then the car started missing and almost felt like it was running out of gas. Could have been oil getting into the cylinders? I have an Auto scanner and the only codes were Lean in banks one and two and misfires on all 6 cylinders. Codes were just cleared last week so this was new.

I panicked and that's when I pulled into a gas station on put in the oil. I might have overfilled it by 1/4 quart and drained a bit when I got home.

I took it on a 2.5 hour trip last night. Oil temp gauge went towards 250. Oil pressure went from pinning at 5 down to 1 while doing highway speeds. 3 or 4 times the car blew out a ton of blue smoke out the exhaust.

The oil fill gauge had one full square lit when I left. When I got to my destination, 1.5 hours, (Al Stewart concert) I checked the oil again and it was beyond low. I grabbed a few quarts of 0W-40 before the autoparts stores closed for the night and it took two full quarts. Before the convert I asked ChatGPT for the symptoms of a bad AOS:

A bad air-oil separator (AOS) on a Porsche 997.1 can lead to several symptoms, which might include:

1. Excessive Exhaust Smoke: If the AOS is failing, it might not separate the oil and air mixture properly. This can cause oil to burn in the combustion chamber, resulting in blue or gray smoke from the exhaust.
   
2. High Oil Consumption: You may notice that your car is using up oil more quickly than usual. This happens because oil that should be separated and returned to the oil pan gets instead burned off in the engine.
   
3. Rough Idle: A failing AOS can cause the engine to idle roughly due to irregular air-to-fuel ratios caused by excess oil entering the combustion chambers.
   
4. Check Engine Light: The check engine light may come on due to related issues such as a misfire or emissions problems caused by the faulty AOS.
   
5. Poor Engine Performance: If the air-oil separator is not working properly, the performance of the engine can be affected. This might manifest as reduced power output or hesitation during acceleration.
   
6. Oil in the Intake Manifold: You might find oil deposits in the intake manifold or on the throttle body, which can indicate that the AOS is not effectively separating the oil from the air.

I experienced all these symptoms verbatim.

Watched the concerted (meh) and drove 1 hour home. On the way home the car was OK. I just went out to check the gauge and it is still one squared to the good.

I just got 12 pts of Mobil One and a filter so I can do an oil change and see. I still consider it a major design flaw that there is no other way to check the oil level than that silly idiot light.

Petza914

On a 997.1 the only oil resing that's accurate and valid is the one first thing in the morning with the car on level ground. Check it before starting it the first time in the morning and I'd bet it shows way overfull, which means gauge all the way filled up and top section flashing.

That sudden loss of oil pressure at speed is exactly what oil does when it foams up and the pump can't pump the foam. That happens from the crankshaft spinning in it then the oil is too full. You need to capture an oil sample when you change it next to see if that loss of pressure at speed has done damage to the engine bearings.

almico

I have other cars so I didn't drive it today. It's been sitting all day since the drive last night and I just went out to check and it showed one full square lit.

FWIW the oil pressure gauge did not move off 5 the whole hour home last night.

It seems to have "consumed" 2 quarts of oil last night on the way to the concert, because I put 2 pts in and the level is still the same.

Petza914

When you turn the key to check the oil level, what does the oil pressure gauge show - anything other than zero means your sender is bad.

Should look like this