malliosg

Good morning,

Looking at a 2010 C4S manual. Clean carfax, 70k miles. Full leather, no sport exhaust, no sport chrono. Thoughts on fair pricing ?

Seems like the 997.2 market may be cooling based on what I am seeing on bringatrailer.com etc. A 2010 C4S manual with 36k miles sold for 70k in November and a 49k mile C4S manual sold for 67k in September.

Appreciate your time!

ATX_Native

What goes up, must come down.

Having bought a car on BaT in the past, don’t forget to factor in the 5% buyers premium.

So that $67k car was actually sold for ~$70k.

As far as what’s fair, you aren’t buying a factory new car, so no two used cars are alike.

Cars have different options, colors, maintenance records, accident history, preventative maintenance etc.

As an example I don’t like the Sport Chrono bump on the dash, nor do I like the white gauges.

So if I were to find say an Aqua Blue/Black C2S with manual, no sport chrono and factory black gauges from a long time member of PCA with a new clutch, I would absolutely “overpay” for that car because that would be worth a lot more to me than a White/Tan car with white gauges and sport chrono.

I would say the neighborhood that car should be in is $65k-$70k, especially with the miles and no other mitigating “I got to have this one because of a super rare build.

malliosg

So I am way off base thinking a 70,000 mile example is a low 60s, if not 60k car?

Assuming no extremes in options, colors, maintenance records, accident history, preventative maintenance etc

Thanks again

fastb4ck

I'd say so, there is a local dealer selling a very desirable color (Porsche racing green with tan interior) 997.2 S for 74k and it only has around 18k miles

ATX_Native

I said $65k-$70k, which is pretty close to low $60’s.

What other comps are you using? Because IMO only using a few auction comps while can be a reference point it’s not the best unless your plan is to wait for a car to pop-up again on an auction site.

That auction car is gone, long gone… and so is that deal. Auctions can be variable, if you have two buyers for a car it can go over what the car might be worth.

I work for a large Bank and sell Class 8 trucks (big rigs), been doing it for 15 years now. I get phone calls all the time with buyers trying to compare what I have for sale vs what sold at auction last month. It doesn’t work that way, because unless you have a Delorean with a flux capacitor you aren’t going to replicate that deal.

Is the car local? Is it across the country? If it’s local that could save you $1k-$2k.

Auctions have fees and normally you aren’t able to fully vet an auction car before you place the bid. A different experience than working with a seller through a PPI and negotiation process based on issues found.

I would expect this C4S Manual to be highly sought after because some people love the widebody and it’s a manual.

Looking on Cars.com there are exactly zero 2009-2011 C4S coupes in manual for sale that I can verify via pictures. The two ones listed with pictures are Manuals are actually PDK. There is one at a dealer that has no pictures, it’s listed for $75k and it has 56k miles. You would have to run the vin to see if it was in fact manual.

When I was searching for my 997.2 it took 4 months, a few PPI’s and dealer shenanigans before one day I saw the car I bought.

At the same time I bought mine RAC Dallas had a 2009 C2 Manual w/ 85k miles listed for $42k, it was the lowest priced 997.2 manual on the market.

I ended up finding my 2009 C2 Manual with 40k miles on PCA Mart hours after it was listed for $39k. I jumped all over it, the owner was amazing and the car checked out. After searching for a while, I knew it was a screaming deal so I paid the full ask.

Again, like the auction, you can’t really use my sale as your pricing guide because it’s gone.

There can also be wide swings because this isn’t a 2020 Chevy Malibu, there are very few manual 997.2 coupes for sale at any given time.

To help the rule of thumb I have noticed:

C2 to C2S is about $10k diff for same miles, trans and year; then C2S to C4S is another $3k-$5k on top of that.

The other thing I have seen over the years is threads pop-up wondering if something is a good deal. If it is a decent deal, 90% of those threads end with the OP stating the car was just sold to someone else. So figure out what you want and are willing to pay for and jump on what fits for you when you come across something.

malliosg

Which dealer if I may ask? Manual ?

ATX_Native

The Gables in Florida.

I just ran the car through VINAnalytics, it’s a manual cab.

So there are zero 997.2 C4S Manual Coupes on Cars.com (if that’s what you’re dead set on).

Get ready to set-up searches on Cars.com and Autotrader and getting alerts for manual coupes nationwide. When you click on the ad no pictures are posted since it just hit the web, only to find out they’re actually PDK or Cab when searching the VIN in VINAnalytics. Very frustrating.

Thats why you figure out what you’re willing to pay and what you want, then when it comes time to buy you jump all over it.

Where is this car you speak of? Who is selling it?

malliosg

Which dealer please?

othertbone

I must be the only one who's never seen a .2S for sale for less than 70k+

Izzy911

Maybe this will help figuring out current pricing from an actual recent buyer just over the weekend. I have a 2009 911 Black Base, DCT. AWE modified exhaust. They started at 53,590, I got it for $49,826 with 57967 miles. $60k out the door with warranty, tax, license, fees here in SoCal. I got me a 3 year warranty for peace of mind but will probably cancel before the 60 days if I feel I don't need it ($3600). It's clean for a 14 year old car, the only negative I saw was 5 owners, but understandable as this are fun cars and high turnover is expected. It's the cheapest I found that I like so I'm okay with it. Let the mods begin for me.

I paid cash so financing cost is not included.

It seem pricing are going down a tad. The only choice was after a month of looking for me was this or an M2CS that's $100k otd. So I guess I saved money, for now. :-)

ATX_Native

PDK is going to be a lot lower than manual.

I would say there would probably be a $5k-$8k difference just for the transmission due to supply.

Having said that my 2009 C2 Manual with 50k miles is worth about $57k in this market, so you did well.

rosemont83

What would you say the difference is from C4s to manual turbo .2?

fastb4ck

blackdog speed shop

Comet is Coming

For tracking sale prices, I try to check out BaT's sold vehicles graph that they maintain automatically. You can find it here Porsche 997 911 (Non-Turbo/GT2/GT3) For Sale - BaT Auctions (bringatrailer.com)

Figure that these are at least 10% inflated due to being on BaT due to fees and just the general premium that all cars go for on BaT.

I would not buy a 997.2 for more than 55,000 in this economy, and I expect that to drop with the upcoming recession.

Comet is Coming

You may be, because most sell for less than $60,000.