groovzilla

Your comments have always been fairly worthless.

TerrestrialFlyte

PV997

Something is off about this whole discussion. This thread was dormant since March 7th and frankly forgotten, then was resurrected yesterday by a mod I have never seen before fretting about "tone". Nothing was shown to be false, defamatory, or otherwise in violation of Rennlist's TOS. So how did that happen? Did the seller stumble across the thread and complain to a mod? If so it would have been nice if that was disclosed. I also question why a mod would venture into a thread and start insinuating that the thread was inappropriate, what's the point of that other than to stifle discussion?

If a thread violates the Rennlist TOS then the mods should discuss offline and take the thread down. If it's bordering on a TOS violation then there's nothing wrong with a friendly warning that the thread is close to crossing a line. Dropping into a thread with vague accusations and comments about thread "low quality" while specifically invoking moderator status is a problem. The mods aren't here to police thread quality or otherwise go after commenters. One of the great things about this board is that the mods have always exercised a very light touch. It's led to free-wheeling and interesting discussions, rather than the typical boring, "what's the torque spec on a head bolt" threads.

We're all adults here a people are entitled to post their opinions and others are entitled to disagree with them. If the seller has a problem with what was posted here then he is entitled to comment here and rebut the points. If the post violates the Rennlist's TOS then take it down. And there's nothing wrong with mods throwing out their opinions, but please don't do it under the auspices of "moderator status" unless people are actually breaking the rules (and can be shown to be doing so).

Ob917

Insurance would not have totaled the car because the bumper needed repainting, come on

groovzilla

I started this thread because the 997 for sale on Pelican Parts was described poorly, had misinformation and the asking price was ridiculously high for a 997 w/prior major accident damage (Which wasn't disclosed on Pelican Ad.).
I wish the Seller didn't delete his Pelican Post Ad - But thankfully comment above that RL member copied/pasted in his post shows one of the sentences in the Pelican description which was total Bullsh:t:
“rear bumper was repainted in 2016 which for some reason caused the title to be branded”

Thanks to B3fresak post it was obvious from Wrecking yard photos that this was a major accident and you can see bent rear decklid at passenger side corner and some damage to rear fender edges and rear bracing.
Working together to discover inconsistencies and misleading descriptions when cars or items are for sale is a great help to RL members.




I have been a member of Pelican for 20 years.
After I started this Thread, the 997 advertised on Pelican was put on BAT Auction and from comments above, the BAT listing was added to the Pelican Ad.
During my almost 15 years as an RL Member I have owned and sold probably 20 Porsche's I have sold many to RL Members and enjoy the ritual of buying these cars, PPI/Bore Scope Inspection and the art of grinding a seller down by using the information gathered after PPI/BSI.
It's been a fun experience and I'm good at it.

I started the BAT Guessing Game Thread years ago which has been a fun venture and many of us enjoy figuring out the Market Value of 997's being sold on many venue's, not only the BAT venue.
Over the years I have warned RL Members/buyers of suspicious cars being sold with "sketchy" descriptions/etc as well as scammers like the guy Kurt Vashon in Kelowna BC who has ripped off Pelican and RL members for over $1,000,000.

I found it odd that member Svandamme made the comments about my interpretation of the 997 being sold on Pelican. I had no idea he was a Mod?
Just thought he was another RL member protecting the seller for some reason?

Not sure whats going on but protecting/defending a poor seller who is not disclosing major accident damage seems to be odd?
I'd would be curious to know why the seller was being defended considering my spot on comments and the eventual BAT price was fairly accurate.

Petza914

Rennlist 997 mods have discussed this thread and concluded that other then the photo of the sellers house/business (has been deleted) that no other info presented here is anything not available in the public domain on this vehicle. The VIN was posted in a different for sale ad for this vehicle, the Copart photos of the vehicle post-accident and pre-for sale ad are available online from the VIN search, and the comments in this thread were also separate from the seller's for sale ads, so additional content contained in this thread will not be deleted no matter how many times the OP continues to report it, as nothing shown or commented on here appears to be false information...the car was in an accident, the photos from the Copart auction are of the car being discussed, and the car has a salvage title. Truth and accurate information isn't censored here unless it violates some other policy and we don't see any violations.

groovzilla

Thx Petza - The point of my Posting this Thread was directly related to the Pelican For Sale Description which has since been deleted. The ridiculous asking price was a joke and after the photos of the wrecked 997 were disclosed by fellow RL Member B3freak, it was clear the seller was not being forthright.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Too bad the Pelican Description was deleted after I posted this Thread. Glad we have a small snippet of the Description, BAT Auction comments and Bid results which totally support my comments.

I have nothing more to ad on this lack luster 997 example.
Would have been an ok deal at $33-$34K but BAT Bidders tend to go on the higher side and reason it went to $36K and a no-sale on BAT.

Big Swole

Sub'd for future reading!!

Prairiedawg

That's funny.

Balr14

I have a cousin who is an insurance adjuster. She told me one thing they have to factor in when declaring a car totaled is diminished value. They never had to deal with this years ago, but it has become common now. Lots of companies specialize in diminished value claims, so aside from costing the insurance companies money, it's a pain in the *** to deal with. So, they are more likely to total a car to avoid the hassle.

Petza914

There are plenty of threads here on Rennlist in each subforum that compile info and ads for where cars of those models are being offered for sale and discussions about them. This thread is no different in my opinion from the GTS 997s for sale thread or the 928 Cars for sale thread in that forum - just a bunch of 997 enthusiasts discussing a 997 being offered for sale on Pelican and BAT.

svandamme

The seller contacted mods to have things removed.
Another mod removed the house picture.
Seller contacted second time for to get the vin removed and I had not noticed the thread was dormant. My bad.

I did not actually find the discussion itself problematic.. about the car itself.
I personally didn't find cause to remove the vin.. a vin is not personal info.


However, the way people throw terms around, about seller this and seller that.. and supposed victims ..
THAT I find is very debatable .
To say the language used is harsh is an understatement, you would not talk to somebody like that in person, while standing next to a car.


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Perhaps you guys should just stick to talking factual about the car instead of disshing it out like juicy gossip with name calling. That's all I was trying to say.

I'm a 20 year old pelicanparts forum member, perhaps they are just nicer over there than on Rennlist?

Big Swole

Well, it looks like this one got Spicy. I can see points on all sides here. I have no dog in the fight so I'll not comment further.





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groovzilla

svandamme appreciate the explanation.

I call out suspicious scammers/sellers/cars all the time. So do other members---->I think it's a great practice and protects RL Members who are unskilled buyers and other members who are unfamiliar with the thieves that prey upon the Porsche community.
A few of recent examples would be the 997 we just "outed" on Pelican, the 997 on RL Marketplace with replaced drivers door, the 997 for sale painted in "Chalk" that is currently on Ebay but made it's rounds on RL which was total repaint due to major accident and seller/Thief Kurt Vashon who operates out of Bellingham Wa. and Vancouver BC area who has sold early 911's & Porsche parts to unsuspecting Porsche buyers and ripped off buyers for over $1,000,000 (or close to it) and is now selling parts on Ebay under the username "dr911".
Kurt was arrested, prosecuted and sent to prison but is now back doing his thievery. I had personal dealings with him years ago when I sold my 911sc Cabriolet and have had contact with some of his victims years ago. Fortunately I was aware of his fraudulent behavior and didn't get ripped off.

svandamme

asking price is to the beholder. Anybody can ask beyond reasonable prices. it means nothing if nobody pays that price.
As long as nothing is intentionally hidden, it is up to the buyer to PPI the car, or do his own due diligence..


And forums can help to discuss between potential buyers, but if anything, screenshot the thing you discuss in the future,
if it really does have fraudulent tendencies, at least there is proof and it cannot be edited or removed.

I'de be totally fine with that, but as I mentioned, keeping it factual , neutral tone.. and no houses or other private information, facts are fine, and less likely to be removed for language and or privacy reasons.