Notices
997 Forum 2005-2012
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

PPI on 997.1 for bore scoring: is it a 18/20 value on cylinder 6 ok?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-18-2023, 10:09 PM
  #31  
ZuffenZeus
Nordschleife Master
 
ZuffenZeus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Zuffenhausen, Georgia
Posts: 5,345
Received 1,895 Likes on 1,036 Posts
Default

Porsche engines more prone to cylinder bore scoring from LN Engineering:



Compression tests are worthless in confirming if you have Bore Scoring:


The following users liked this post:
Andre_Sant (01-19-2023)
Old 01-18-2023, 10:58 PM
  #32  
Sporty
Three Wheelin'
 
Sporty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: North/Central, NJ
Posts: 1,419
Received 464 Likes on 296 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ATX_Native
Same, I also prefer the black gauges in the non-S.
Hmmm ,Ii have the black gauges, which I like, but kind of always envied the white dials in others. Why the white "dislike" if I dare ask?
Old 01-18-2023, 11:24 PM
  #33  
Carreralicious
Rennlist Member
 
Carreralicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 1,605
Received 754 Likes on 407 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Sporty
Hmmm ,Ii have the black gauges, which I like, but kind of always envied the white dials in others. Why the white "dislike" if I dare ask?
It’s personal preference. Some say the black dials are easier to read but I don’t find that to be the case as I’ve had black gauges in my Boxster but white in my 997. I prefer the look of the white as I think it looks more sporty for my sports car.


Old 01-19-2023, 11:56 AM
  #34  
ZuffenZeus
Nordschleife Master
 
ZuffenZeus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Zuffenhausen, Georgia
Posts: 5,345
Received 1,895 Likes on 1,036 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Andre_Sant
Yes, but less than the S.
I read that the dimension (width) on the 3.8 S is different, and so the S can have more problems for this reason
Based on years of investigation carried out by several respected companies, displacement alone is not a factor in the bore scoring equation. One of the biggest differences between M9X engines that are more prone to bore scoring vs. not prone is piston composition chosen for the Carrera 911 models in the M96 and M97 generation, but again, it's an equation of many variables that leads to the problem.

Originally Posted by Andre_Sant
Yes, in Italy there have been fewer cases of bore scoring, but they are still present.


Curious, how did you come to this conclusion?
Old 01-19-2023, 12:57 PM
  #35  
groovzilla
Rennlist Member
 
groovzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: seattle, washington
Posts: 17,375
Received 4,920 Likes on 2,908 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Carreralicious
It’s personal preference. Some say the black dials are easier to read but I don’t find that to be the case as I’ve had black gauges in my Boxster but white in my 997. I prefer the look of the white as I think it looks more sporty for my sports car.

Black dial Gauges have been produced since the 356.
Personally I think black dial Gauges look so much better.
All personal preference.





Old 01-19-2023, 01:43 PM
  #36  
ATX_Native
Rennlist Member
 
ATX_Native's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,176
Received 774 Likes on 421 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Sporty
Hmmm ,Ii have the black gauges, which I like, but kind of always envied the white dials in others. Why the white "dislike" if I dare ask?
Personal preference.

I had a 2001 Maxima SE 5MT way back in the day, I always disliked the bleed through of the warning lights and blinker indicators when they aren’t lit, was a little too busy IMO because of the ghosting effect. Also it was hard to see numbers at dusk, however digital speedo option these days makes that less of an issue.

Black gauges to me are more classic and less busy, more focused.

From my oil change this weekend..




Compared to white gauges:





Old 01-19-2023, 01:44 PM
  #37  
Andre_Sant
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
Andre_Sant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 39
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by b3freak
Based on years of investigation carried out by several respected companies, displacement alone is not a factor in the bore scoring equation. One of the biggest differences between M9X engines that are more prone to bore scoring vs. not prone is piston composition chosen for the Carrera 911 models in the M96 and M97 generation, but again, it's an equation of many variables that leads to the problem.
Thank you

Curious, how did you come to this conclusion?

1) by the fact that many Porsche repair workshop managers knew very little about the bore scoring problem
2) from the fact that hearing a porsche repair chief further south than where I live they had never heard of bore scoring
3) the fact that in italy the only 997 targa 4s with almost 200,000 km on sale belongs to someone who lives in palermo (the southernmost place in italy), which makes me think that the equation 'warm climate = fewer breakdowns' is correct
4) from the fact that when I contacted sellers of Porsche 997s in italy, practically no one had ever heard of this problem, whereas when I contacted some in the netherlands, they knew all about it
5) from the fact that in the Italian porsche forums this problem is well known and known but much less discussed than in other non-Italian forums and with an overall sketchy knowledge. In general, the IMS problem is much more discussed.
6) from the fact that the workshop I contacted told me that practically no one asks to do a bore scope inspection, and that the last one they did was many years ago. then the high quality probe broke (which also had side vision), but since then they've only bought a front one because it's something no one asks for anyway


Old 01-19-2023, 01:49 PM
  #38  
Andre_Sant
Intermediate
Thread Starter
 
Andre_Sant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 39
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by groovzilla
I've owned over 70 Porsche cars. JUst fun and I've enjoyed them.
When I was working as a Fashion Photographer before I retired, my photo studio was in San Francisco from 1987 - 2006
I live in Seattle and flew down to SF every week and also would fly to Los Angeles. Bought lots of Porsches and drove them home to Seattle for fun. Kept some for years and sold some after 2 months.
Over the past 9 years I bought and sold many 997's to try different models and at that time there were many manual transmission 997 C4S,S and non-S on the market.
My 2006 997 C4 is my favorite of them all. Has full leather, Fister exhaust and lowered with H&R Springs - Also has short shift kit. I've owned it for 2 years and did many PPI/Bore Scope Inspections on 997's over the years.
Enjoy the hunt!
​​​​​​​
Great experience !
The following users liked this post:
groovzilla (01-20-2023)
Old 01-19-2023, 07:09 PM
  #39  
ZuffenZeus
Nordschleife Master
 
ZuffenZeus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Zuffenhausen, Georgia
Posts: 5,345
Received 1,895 Likes on 1,036 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Andre_Sant
Thank you
1) by the fact that many Porsche repair workshop managers knew very little about the bore scoring problem
2) from the fact that hearing a porsche repair chief further south than where I live they had never heard of bore scoring
3) the fact that in italy the only 997 targa 4s with almost 200,000 km on sale belongs to someone who lives in palermo (the southernmost place in italy), which makes me think that the equation 'warm climate = fewer breakdowns' is correct
4) from the fact that when I contacted sellers of Porsche 997s in italy, practically no one had ever heard of this problem, whereas when I contacted some in the netherlands, they knew all about it
5) from the fact that in the Italian porsche forums this problem is well known and known but much less discussed than in other non-Italian forums and with an overall sketchy knowledge. In general, the IMS problem is much more discussed.
6) from the fact that the workshop I contacted told me that practically no one asks to do a bore scope inspection, and that the last one they did was many years ago. then the high quality probe broke (which also had side vision), but since then they've only bought a front one because it's something no one asks for anyway
You have a very unique perspective and I appreciate you following up with what you've experienced there in Italy. Here's some fresh data for you. These are 2022-23 analytics for Porsche enthusiasts/ownership by country. You'll notice that Italy has less than .01% which may explain what you've discovered.


The following users liked this post:
Andre_Sant (01-20-2023)
Old 01-19-2023, 07:11 PM
  #40  
yelcab
Three Wheelin'
 
yelcab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bay Area on the Peninsula
Posts: 1,920
Received 708 Likes on 442 Posts
Default

Is there sales tax due payable by the buyer when you buy a used car in Seattle?
Old 01-19-2023, 07:28 PM
  #41  
groovzilla
Rennlist Member
 
groovzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: seattle, washington
Posts: 17,375
Received 4,920 Likes on 2,908 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by yelcab
Is there sales tax due payable by the buyer when you buy a used car in Seattle?
Yes - Was 9% for years then in about 2010 jumped to 10%. Paying sales tax sucks but I was making good income when I was photographer so wasn't as painful.
Some of the cars especially back in my 356-early 911 days were sold before I titled them so buyer paid the tax.
Washington State allows you to sell 4 vehicles per year without a dealer license. years ago it was 8 per year I believe.

I've heard about setting up an LLC in Montana to avoid Sales Tax on high end cars. Think it is still going on.
Also expensive RV's have gone that route.



.


Last edited by groovzilla; 01-20-2023 at 12:25 PM.
Old 01-22-2023, 05:57 PM
  #42  
Ale-Superbike
Instructor
 
Ale-Superbike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by b3freak
You have a very unique perspective and I appreciate you following up with what you've experienced there in Italy. Here's some fresh data for you. These are 2022-23 analytics for Porsche enthusiasts/ownership by country. You'll notice that Italy has less than .01% which may explain what you've discovered.

E' una lista dei proprietari di porsche nel mondo ?



Quick Reply: PPI on 997.1 for bore scoring: is it a 18/20 value on cylinder 6 ok?



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 12:02 AM.