Andre_Sant

good morning everyone, I am in the process of buying a 2007 porsche 997.1 4s targa.
Prior to purchase I had a PPI done, specifically I asked for cylinder compression testing for bore scoring. I should mention that the car shows no symptoms or problems.

The result was as follows:
cylinder 6 seal: 18/20
cylinder 5 seal: 20/20
cylinder 4 seal: 19/20
cylinder seal 3: 19/20
cylinder seal 2: 20/20
cylinder seal 1: 19/20
Cylinder 6, which as we know is the most critical on these cars for bore scoring, seemed a little low compared to the values of the other cylinders.

According to the porsche centre the values are ok, but at that porsche centre they didn't seem very aware of the bore scoring problem.

I wanted to ask you guys what you think.
Thank you very much

fireman

Put a camera in it. No other way to tell.

yelcab

I don't even know what 18/20 means for a compression test.

carguy999

I've only ever heard of actually taking pictures with a borescope for scoring in a PPI. You'll want to see pictures and get input from someone who knows what they're doing.

groovzilla

Compression test through spark plugs costs more than Bore Scope. And whats with those wacky compression test numbers??
Why would you waste the extra $$ on compression test when Bore Scope/photos so much more important??

Get Bore Scope Inspection with 3 photos per cylinder

Ericson38

I think these are leak down results as a fraction. So 20/20 means no gas lost(?), while 18/20 = 0.9, or 10% leak down.

groovzilla

The fact cylinder #6 shows lower compression is a red flag for possible/probable Bore Scoring.
Either way Bore Scope Inspection should be done to every 997 prior to purchase.

Andre_Sant

thank you all for your answers.
Unfortunately when I took the car to the porsche center in my town they told me that they only have a low resolution camera and would see very little.

They were the ones who advised me to do the compression test.

Now also thanks to your information I have instead realized that the compression test says very little, even a completely rifled cylinder could easily get 20/20 that is the maximum score.

Conversely, I cannot get a ppi with professional probe done correctly.

Do you guys say the 18/20 on cylinder 6 is a red alert?

The machine has no oil leakage, no erratic oil consumption, no strange fumes, no metallic sounds.

I also checked the exhaust pipes, I put my finger in there and there was just a little thread of black dirt, which could be soot, but it was a really insignificant amount.
I know that soot in the exhaust pipe can be an alert, but I don't think an exhaust pipe can be 100% clean, or can it?

Ericson38

We don''t know if you paid for a compression test, a leak down test, and what the units are in the measurements.

If a low res camera only did they get any photos and did they charge you ?

I think they want you gone, unless they think you understand what they did exactly. A completely rifled bore won't develop much compression at all, so that's a little exaggeration on their part ?

Is it your car now ? If so, there is water under the bridge already and you aren't the 1st and wont be the last in this regard.

If you own now, how many miles, service records, last oil change ?

Andre_Sant

yes it is

Andre_Sant

The test was named: cylinder leakage checks (it is the name on the invoice, translated from the italian language). I paid 200 EUR for it. (220usd)

If i want bore score inspection they want other 200 eur for it but they can do it only from the high, with a low res camera without any warranty.
From youtube I understood that in the first stage the cylinder will scope always from the bottom, so from the high you can not see anything..

For now it is not again my car.
It has 83885,111 and the seller changed oil every 6200 miles, it changed 3 times in 1 year because he made 18600 miles in 1 year.

The previous owner had the car from the 2007 to october 2021 and he changed oil every 18.000 miles
The car was always in italy (a not cold country)
Thanks

groovzilla

1- 200 Euros for Bore Scope Inspection = $216 US - That is a good deal
2 - Incorrect---> You can see/view most of the cylinder wall from the top spark plug holes - Bore Scope from bottom IMO is not necessary to see condition of cylinders especially on a 997 with 84,000 miles

Andre_Sant

Thanks

I spoke to my private seller today and told him:
I'll pay you 500 euro extra for the trouble (550$), but I want to have another indy do the bore scope inspection, at my expense.
(so I will pay the bore scope inspection + I will give 500 euro to the seller)

he was annoyed by my attitude because we had already taken the car to porsche and had them do all the checks they suggested we do and we had wasted a lot of time on them

he told me that he was tired and that if I wanted to do more checks and waste more time then he wanted, 2500 euros more (like 2800 usd more), which seemed excessive to me.

What do you think?
In general I know that when a seller doesn't want to do checks it's always a bad sign, on the other hand I also understand that i made him lose a lot of time already and that at the time of the first check he was available anyway.

It should also be mentioned that at the first check, porsche had found no oil leaks on the spark plugs (although they didn't unscrew them, they just looked at them for the 111 checks).

carguy999

Honestly I would just bail on this whole thing. It doesn't sound like any of these people want to help you, and there are other 997s out there. Just be patient and don't rush into it.

ATX_Native

He was annoyed at you spending your money to check out his car that’s for sale? $2,500 to check, lol.

I would absolutely cut bait and move on.

OP, try and find a car owned and sold by an enthusiast or Porsche Club owner.

My journey for my 911 saw me looking at 3 cars and PPI’ing two of them.

The 4th time was a charm and I am absolutely glad the three previous ones didn’t work out, because my car was such a great deal and was everything I was looking for. Including a 997.2 over a 997.1.

There will always be another car around the corner and it’s not like you are disputing or checking something trivial like brake pad %.

If you buy a car that is scored you’re pretty much writing off $15k-$20k.