Bruce In Philly

2009 C2S 185K miles

So... bore scoring... will it happen to you? I dunno. What are the odds? I dunno? Good daily? I dunno. These cars are fine until they are not. What do I mean by that? I dunno.

There is no consensus. I am amazed how we humans just can't get our heads around the concept (reality?) of probability. Why? I dunno.

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

Whisperjet

Whew!

Clear as mud!

bgoetz

Probability or potential is only one aspect to evaluating risk. Additionally, it isn’t just about risk it is then taking it a step further and doing a CBA on the mitigation of said risk (buying a more expensive car). Add to this an additional layer of the more expensive car having its own level of risk as well as other risks beyond what is being discussed it isn’t surprising people arrive at different solutions.

jbkusa

You can definitely buy down some of the risk by having a bore scope done before a purchase.

jchapura

@Optionman1 Where exactly was the residual fuel found? And under what conditions? What was taken apart to see the residual fuel?
I'm thinking about (preemptively) changing out all my fuel injectors but would like to baseline (within reason) the current situation (beyond the UOA that I've been doing).

Bruce In Philly

2009 C2S 185K miles

Risk... boy that is a big one. How to assess, mitigate, and live with... hmmm... From my own experience: When my 2000 Boxster S blew its first engine at around 45K miles (covered under warranty.. just within!) I wasn't all that upset. I discovered that the rumors were more than true but I figured I just got a new engine and another 45K miles on my car... butt... yea that big butt again... I thought about it alot. Before it blew, I would go to Summit Point and blow it out on the track and learn to drive. After the blow, I stopped going to the track and won't track my C2S now just because I don't want the wear and tear. Tracking a car is hard on it no matter the make/model. Every time I got into the car I thought about it. I enjoyed the car and had no intention of selling it but it was always on my mind. Then... guess what, yep that one blew. I am scarred. So... no M96/M97 for me and I can't recommend one to anyone.

The biggest aspect of risk to me is the resulting cost. If it is big, I am going to avoid it. Now if my engine had a known bad water pump design... I would be annoyed. But, I don't mind changing it out proactively as long as I can do the work myself. A bad water pump design would not stop me from buying a car... but a 25K price tag should something happen... that we read about... that happened to me.... nope. I ain't going there.

Could it happen to my C2S .2 9A1? Most likely no. I do think about it, but I don't worry about it. I place the odds of my 9A1 blowing at around the same odds as any other maker's car having a major failure. What do I base this on? I dunno.

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now in Atlanta)

jbkusa

Living life avoiding all risk ain’t living!

making smart informed decisions and understanding your tolerable risk is key. As Bruce mentioned, 2 Boxter motors blowing is not reasonable for most (including me) but someone who has the wherewithal may be willing to accept.

Another thing to think about… think about those guys who worry about bore score and have a PDK 🤯 risk is everywhere!!! … it might be too hot in the kitchen for those guys.

Optionman1

The car threw a CEL and was running very rough, especially at low rpms. My indy, after first detecting a code for a cylinder 1 misfire replaced the coil pack and spark plug. The misfire reappeared on cold start, again mostly at very low rpm. Not sure I remember exactly what he told me but a compression test revealed no issues but he did see some gasoline within cylinder 1, assuming via a video scoping of some type. No other cylinders showed any issues. He suspects the cylinder 1 fuel injector is defective/leaking and since all of the injectors have close to 25k miles on them, might as well replace all 6 rather than just the one currently showing an issue. Everything makes sense as recently I have been experiencing increased blue smoke on start-up and recent UOA consistently show higher than normal fuel dilution.

RatherJaded

Those direct injectors are costly. Nearly $340 each and that is discounted. MSRP is $414.62 each.

yelcab

I was a non-believer of bore scoring to be a serious problem ... until I have it on my 2006 Carrera S.

Blue smoke on start up, black soots on left exhaust, scoring seen with up-top scope of Cyls 6 and 4, and oil consumption dropping to 1000 miles per quart. No funny noise yet....

i am just planning my schedule to work on it in 2023.

Optionman1

Yep, my holiday present to myself.

jchapura

Does anyone have pictures of residual fuel in a cylinder? If you do, under what conditions was it observed (cold engine? xx hours after engine last run? just "bumping" the starter? etc.)?

groovzilla

Visited my Indy Mechanic this morning and saw this guy outside the shop on sidewalk being attended to.
Apparently he got some bad PDK news today.

Optionman1

I have no photos but in my case the car had sat at the mechanics for at least a week before he started to diagnose my misfire issue. As far as I know everything was observed with a nearly cold engine, save for a restart or two after the coil pack/plug was changed out. I will get more info for everyone after I get the car back.

Optionman1

Bronz's car was a true 997.2 outlier, had both bore scoring and failed PDK. A unicorn of sorts, lol