Fahrer

No need to.

ZuffenZeus

Not trying to be argumentative. Just a simple question. Have you scoped the cylinders in the last 24 months?

Sporty

"Not trying to be argumentative. Just a simple question. Have you scoped the cylinders in the last 24 months?" and then what? If its running fine, not burning oil and you are already doing the right things, what are you going to do at this point? If symptoms start appearing then you deal with it. There are enough less important things in life to put on our plates and to worry and be anxious about.

Just budget for a rebuild at some point, hopefully over 100k miles and many years of ownership - given the price of the new ones and E-trend it may not be a bad "investment" down the road assuming it brings you some entertainment/joy in life

ZuffenZeus

Depends on what is shown on the borescope. It's the only conclusive way to determine if you have a problem or not.


You have to chose to be either proactive or reactive. You seem to be a more reactive person; therefore, I "choose" to ....

Amrit.boxer

this is a very logical approach. Saw online that many went for a full rebuild without exhibiting any actual symptoms. There are also situations where people just see scouring on high mileage vehicle and will assume scoring is coming then rebuild out of fear. Suppose that comes with the fact that lot of the demographic of Porsche owners have the disposable income. Isn’t it going to be the same result whether you rebuild before or after symptoms - a rebuild of the same exact nature with the same damaged parts and cost?

Sporty

"You seem to be a more reactive person; therefore, I "choose" to .... I don't get it - why are you insulting me??? I just offered a point of view for my personal situation and perhaps some others. Have you borescoped your car?
"

ZuffenZeus

Absolutely, I did. But the M97.20 Cayman engines are not prone to cylinder bore scoring like the M96 and M97 Carrera engines.

I also scoped my last 996 Carrera when I learned about the problem with M96 engines. I did have some scuffing, but NOT full blown cylinder scoring. Thank goodness. Now, since I had the very early stages of the problem, I switched oil to one that had a better anti-wear package and drove the car weekly to keep it exercised. I also changed out a bunch of other stuff proactively.

ZuffenZeus

No, cylinder bore scoring is like a cancer and when it starts to shed metal, it can take out other vital parts (e.g. crankshaft) over time that would have normally be reused. Try ordering a crankshaft for a M97 3.8L engine from Porsche and see what that part alone will cost you.

Sporty

"Now, since I had the very early stages of the problem, I switched oil to one that had a better anti-wear package and drove the car weekly to keep it exercised. I also changed out a bunch of other stuff proactively."

Are you referencing the same (996) car and do you still have it? If not, did you disclose this when you sold it ?

ZuffenZeus

Technically, cylinder scuffing is not considered abnormal for 20 year old engines, but I've done more than most to bring public awareness to the bore scoring issue as it affects the M9X engines. And, I have always tried to disclose everything I knew (good and bad) about any vehicle I sell outright. Just two weeks ago I sold our GMC Yukon XL and it needed a new fan resistor for the rear air and a TPMS module. I could have easily said nothing because the vehicle cooled just fine with the front system and TPMS didn't stop the vehicle from operating. However, I offered the new part to the owner and even offered to install it, but they didn't care and was happy to get a nice Yukon. The offer still stands if they want it.

4Forethought

My 997.2 MA1.01 was a Florida car with 33k miles when I bought it in February, 2021. Pre purchase inspection noted some minor issues which the shop repaired but bore scope allegedly showed no scoring and the car had a clean over rev report. This spring, 6000 miles and 2 oil/filter changes later, we found non-ferrous metal particles in the oil filter and significantly more in the sump. Bore scope showed scoring in all cylinders, most severe in 1 & 3. Engine most likely requires full rebuild but many parts are backordered. Neither the body/suspension or engine showed any typical signs of abuse or neglect and full service records from 2009 showed regular 6 month oil changes, often at 1000 to 1500 miles or less, and all required service yet here we are... :-(

8x57IRS

Interesting and important information. But it always shows that a filter inspection and oil analysis is necessary for a complete assessment. One can neither rely on noises nor on frequent oil changes. You take advantage of preventive medical checkups and blood analysis for yourself, but one often don't let your car get that :-)

Petza914

Man, that stinks and we don't see many .2s with the scoring. People have been paying the price premium for thiangenwration to avoid exactly this, so it stinks that it happened. Are you going to rebuild it and via which avenue?

ZuffenZeus

Sorry to hear that! Here's an engine I bought from a close buddy of mine. One owner C4S M96.03. The car was running fine, but started to have misfires. Replaced the coil packs and plugs, but still had the misfires and excessive oil consumption. Scoped bank two (see pictures) and severe scoring.

ZuffenZeus

I totally agree. Regular filter inspections and a UOA are great ways to see if a problem is on the horizon. The valve train components can fool people with the mechanical sounds it produces. Cylinder bore scoring will begin to produce a lifter type ticking noise and why many shops will say, "You probably have a bad lifter". If you don't scope the engine and have a "ticking" noise, then you should purchase a set of mechanic's ears and probe the area underneath cylinders. Jake Raby has a procedure on YouTube you can follow.