Bruce In Philly

2009 C2S 180K miles

Now living in Atlanta and in a heat wave, I am seeing elevated oil temps that make me nervous. They hit just under 250 under slowing/accelerating on the jammed highways around here. From what I read, that is no big deal, but it does appear to be easy to get it to climb and slow to go down. And I am not driving the car as hard as I want to... takes the fun out of the thing.

So.... what do you recommend?

1 - Forget it, all is good
2 - Clean the radiator-condenser gap - requires bumper removal
3 - Clean the gap and add a third radiator
4 - BONUS QUESTION: What about those little tools that straighten out the fins? Anyone use one?

For 1, naw, I can;t leave it alone but I would be interested if anyone thinks my car is abnormally warm - if it is, I suspect crap in the gap (ooo... squishy).
For 2, see below the crap in the gap when I cleaned out my 2000 Boxster S at 194K miles and 12 years.... so assuming the same, how many degrees if any is cleaning this good for?
For 3, considering the Porsche Tequipment option from Suncoast that includes wheel liners or EMC2s cheaper option... no decision on which, just wondering what to do first.

My thinking right now, is that I just pull the bumper and clean the thing out. This way, I can see what cleaning actually does to temps. Then if not satisfied, go with the third radiator. But then of course if I take the whole thing apart, I may as well just put in the kit. I dunno.... opinions?

BTW, I contacted Hennessy Porsche about their pricing on a third radiator kit (Suncoast is like $230 for shipping!), and they have yet to respond to me now a week later (spoke in person last Saturday, called and left a message Friday). The parts guy there was confused as to what even the Porsche kit part number was.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Crap in the Gap!!! @ 194K miles and 12 years. Note the hanging condenser in front of the radiator.

campbesl

Bruce,
My recommendation is to add the 3rd radiator while cleaning out the accumulated detritus. I did it to my current and past 997.1's and really like the added cooling which keeps my Temps from spiking above ~225F.

I think that there is a difference between the 997.1 and the 997.2 but as I recall, EMC2 solved that problem with his kit.

Overall, installation was very easy and straightforward. An airlift system to evacuate and refill the cooling system is a must. If you don't have one, let me know and I will loan you mine.

Scott

MrMoose

In my mind the most annoying part of installing the third radiator is removing the bumper, so I'm with Scott: clean out the detritus and install the 3rd radiator at the same time. The 997.2 kit isn't cheap but if you're planning to keep the car for a while buy once, cry once is my motto.

Fin straightener tools work fine but I doubt you've got enough fin deformation to actually make a difference in cooling.

kellen

2 and 3. The 997.1 kit can be used on 997.2 cars. Good write ups on here and saves a lot of cash.

Floyd540

.997.1 cars are completely different than .2 cars when it comes to drivetrain (and most everything else). What does or does not work for one has no relation or value to the other series. For a .2 car, clean out the radiators, check the screens that you may have added and remember that screens restrict the airflow. No screens are best but they do keep out leaves and bugs. If a car has PDK gearbox (you do not) then a third radiator is a must. For good ole 6 speed stick .2 cars, no third radiator is needed. Clean everything out and go try it. I have a late .2 car, (2011) 6 speed and temps will rise to 225+ (gauge) in hot area like Las Vegas traffic , but that is OK . . 250 + would be the most you want to see in a street car. Clean out the radiators , your 180,000 miles of chasing through the woods and gravel roads have reduced the heat transfer efficiency by at least 40 % If everybody obsesses over this then Porsche will do what every car manufacturer has done to the coolant temp gague- "don't tell them the truth, they can't take it".
Cleaned, washed, fin straightened, back washed, rewashed and put it back together and go for a drive.

Emc2design

@Bruce In Philly

We have a kit which allows proper installation of the much cheaper 997.1 3rd rad kit on a 997.2. Here's my write up - super easy DIY and definitely helps with temps here in Atlanta.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...n-t-fit-2.html

Hella-Buggin'

the third radiator won't help much if you're going slow in traffic. It doesn't have a fan and needs air rushing through it to do much. Probably not aa bad idea but sitting in traffic it's not going to be a huge difference.
Once you start moving it will cool faster though.

E39Nutz

If you have to take out the bumper to clean the radiators, I strongly recommend adding the 3rd radiator, it is money and effort well spend. As a bonus, I also notice that the cabin temperature is not as hot, relatively speaking, when driving in the hot days (temp >95F)
I would also recommend adding the screen when you have the bumper out. No more radiator cleaning for a long time.

Frank 993 C4S

Clean the radiators and don't worry about the third radiator. It does nothing in stop n go traffic.

Prairiedawg

If your radiator looks anything like the one pictured above, you will be amazed how much of a difference just cleaning it will do. The picture above shows 40-50% of the radiator blocked. Not to mention you have fuzz coming out of the condenser so these fins are plugged as well. Add those together and you have substantially closed off the heat removing capacity of the cooling AND AC system. Keep in mind, when the AC condenser is plugged IT will run much hotter as well. That hot air coming out of the condenser passed through the radiator which the coolant has to reject it's heat to. A choked off condenser may be putting 130-140* air into the radiator which leaves little margin to get the coolant temperature down with.

Think of it this way, if you took a flashlight and shined it straight though both, you have maybe a 6"x6" pass for both the condenser and the radiator to move air though. Painfully inadequate and the cooling air has to pass through both. I realize that those pics are of your old Boxster but you are approaching similar milage. I'm a commercial AC tech and whenever we have heat transfer problems, the default thing to do is to clean the medium for it. You then have a baseline to investigate further for a more complex problem. 99% of the time that takes care of it. I think you will find that is the case for you as well. It will have the added benefit of allowing the AC to work less hard as well. That lowers head pressure which takes load off the compressor, which takes load off the engine, which will need less cooling. See how that works?

Plus, if you pull the bumper and find it's full of crap it will make a good experiment to see how much it helps. Do it for science,......and mankind!

E39Nutz

The third radiator provide more surface area for heat to dissipate. Even if it is in a stop-n-go traffic, heat is still dissipating through the radiator fins. Driving at speed with air channeling through the radiator just speeds up the process.

Bruce In Philly

2009 C2S 180K miles

Update: I pulled the bumper and cleaned the radiators. What did I find? Not much... my Boxster above was way more clogged up. So much for 180K miles and 13 years of crap buildup... NOT. Some recommend cleaning out the crap in your gap once a year... phooey.

What I did discover, was the condenser fins are extremely bent over. I can't believe this is not an issue for cooling. I tried taking a tiny screwdriver, sitting down, cranking some tunes, and just poke them straight. Forget it, it is an impossible task. They don't just bend straight, you kinda have to work it.

Is this cleaning procedure hard? No, but it is a royal pain getting the wheel liner out and back in... trying to remember each nook, cranny and tab... then those two evil bumper clips. Easy job but very time consuming... fiddly as heck... and, in short, not worth it. Knowing what I know now, I would leave the bumper on, and just spray in a ton of Simple Green and hit it with a hose... the hose will spray straight through. For the remaining bits of leaves and such.. forget it. If you really want to improve air flow, replace the condensers. UPDATE: Oil Temps went down!!! Read more my post below..... this cleaning worked!!

Short instructions... no this is not a real DIY as there are many vids out there on how to remove your bumper (.2 has subtle differences such as electric plugs), but I will post a shorty list here:
1 - Jack up your front end... I used two jacks.
2 - Remove your front wheels
3 - Remove all the screws on the underside holding the bumper and wheel liner (Torx 25?) Same Torx for all on my car.
4 - Remove your wheel liner, only the front part. 4 Torx inside, a few underneath. This is a flaming pain the ***. Tip: remove the nut at the top of the upper liner as this will help you re-install the liner later.
5 - You do not have to remove the side marker lights nor the headlights
6 - Remove one electrical connection for each side inside wheel well. This is located midway... and is clipped to a center support member. I, of course, broke the mounting clip on one and fastened it back with a plastic strap thingy. Tip: Slide a very thin flat-blade screw driver into the rectangle slot... this pushes up the plastic over the knub and allows you to pull the plug apart (there is no squeeze tab). Even then it would not budge for me hence me braking it from the mount.
7 - Detach the single water line to the bumper sprayers, driver side only... just pull of the blue clamp and they hoses separate easily
8 - Remove the hidden torx screw located just behind the side marker light, it goes in straight up.
9 - Open the frunk and remove the plastic trim from the latch and sides of the tub
10 - Remove the three screws under the latch trim
11 - Now for the biggest pain... the two evil bumper clips. Here is a tip: I used a length of picture hanging wire, created a loop, hooked it over the tab, put on some heavy leather gloves, and pull like f'n ell. It brakes loose and scares the h out of ya. I cleaned and greased them before re-insertion
12 - Remove the bumper
13 - Remove the condenser-radiator cowling... three screws and two rubber tabs... squeeze the tabs from behind
14 - Unclip the condenser cross-pipe from under the frunk latch - two clips
15 - Remove one bolt from the condenser, and carefully slide it out from its two tabs
16 - Spin the fans from inside the wheel well and ensure there are no stones or other debris... vacuum like hell (vacuum before you spray water).
17 - After vacuuming all the crap from the gap, I then sprayed it down.. soaked it... with Simple Green Extreme. This stuff is used on aircraft and safe for aluminum. I let it vet for maybe 5-10 minutes, then hosed it down hard. You will see black water pour from the drains on the bottom of the radiator... make sure they are clear... on the pan edge towards the back of the car. I then did another spray of Simple Green and hosed again. You can aim your hose directly at the condenser and it will shoot through to the radiater and then on through.

So... did it cool the engine down? I am not sure yet, I have not tested it thoroughly. I doubt it. Really doubt I did anything valuable. There was way more debris in my Boxster and I am not sure that cleaning did anything good, but I am not sure about the Boxster because a few thousand miles later, the coolant tank split (3rd? tank) and then the engine blew up shortly thereafter.

Third Radiator: I am having trouble understanding the third radiator kit. Hennessy Porsche could not find anything from Porsche... they originally told me Porsche does not have one. Then another jockey there found something on a Tequipment "supplement" and quoted me $782. Suncoast has a kit for $975, includes "wheel liners" and charges an addition $240 for shipping. Something is way wacky. Hennesy emailed me the parts list for the third radiator and it looks incomplete... looks like a crash kit and not a consumer kit.

Anywho... feast on the tasty bits below... oooo....ahhhh....

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

MrMoose

I'd actually call that a lot of crap compared to what I've found in my car.

You're right: those condensers are REALLY beat up, and I'd be concerned about flow restriction from that. Unfortunately they're not the type where you can use a radiator comb to straighten them, so if that's contributing to the problem I'd think your only option would be replacement.

Prairiedawg

Hate to say it but it's probably the condensers killing you. Having all the bent over fins is really no different than being plugged with debris. Same airflow restriction. The simple green and debris removal probably helped a bit. Removing the road grime and dirt will give you better heat transfer.

Wayne Smith

A few years ago I too spent hours straightening bent over condenser fins. I ultimately succeeded in making them look new. Did it matter? No. Did removing the debris matter? No. Did it make me feel better? Yes.

But I needed more cooling so I bit the bullet. In so doing, I did a write up a while ago on the third radiator. I know, I know ... the search function sucks. But Google can be your friend ...

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...-radiator.html

I started my post with innocent ignorance but ultimately gained knowledge through the process. I edited my first post in case anyone wanted a synopsis. Read all the way through to get the entire story.

For instance, EMC2 ended up being wonderful (obviously they were that way throughout). Their post #6 includes all the parts you need to use the .1 kit on the .2 car, which will save you some money.

The air lift (vacuum) kit doesn't suck the air out of the third radiator very well. The radiator sits a long way away from the tank. Fill the radiator before you install it. Put the hose clips into their slots before putting the hoses on ... the hoses slide through the clips and lock right on without any hassles and this will minimize fluid losses from the radiator as you do so. Put the hoses on the radiator first. Then slide the whole assembly (with cowl) into position. The mounting bolts are already on your car ... simple.

I am no longer a mod monster but I figure this one is worth doing. This extra radiator did reduce my temperatures.

Note ... Later on I further opened the holes in the bottom of my bumper (pictures included). Cutting holes in body parts should be right up your alley!!!