DIY and value?
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From: ATL
DIY and value?
Do you think DIY affects value?
I didn't buy these cars expecting that they would be worth more than I paid for them, and who really knows if it's lasting or just a factor of the times we're in now.
Assume they do hold valve even if they don't increase much. Do you think DIY jobs like fluid changes and routine maintenance will affect the value of the car? Do buyers want to see a stack of invoices to prove the work was performed on schedule or will the good word of an enthusiast carry the same weight?
I didn't buy these cars expecting that they would be worth more than I paid for them, and who really knows if it's lasting or just a factor of the times we're in now.
Assume they do hold valve even if they don't increase much. Do you think DIY jobs like fluid changes and routine maintenance will affect the value of the car? Do buyers want to see a stack of invoices to prove the work was performed on schedule or will the good word of an enthusiast carry the same weight?
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As long as It's done right and documented the owner should have no problem validating DIY service. If the car goes to change hands it will most likely go through another PPI and any findings will get presented. At that point I don't think it matters who did the work, it's just a matter of it passes or needs service to a particular system. A stack of dealer invoices wouldn't bring anymore money than a few DIY receipts and invoices from an INDY. Condition is what matters the most to a good portion of the community.
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From: Idaho
There is only so much that even a thorough PPI can reveal about a car. For a prospective buyer, there will always be unknowns and risks involved with any purchase. When you factor in the (higher) prices that these cars are fetching now, (as well as the costs of repairs), having good documentation on the maintenance and repair history is valuable. (Will better facilitate the sale and in my opinion, a higher sales price.)
So - to answer your question, to me, no - DYI maintenance would not provide the same reassurance (translated as tangible value) as having documented history of the work (validating that it was done and also giving some insight as to the caliber of work based on where it was done.)
That being said - when one purchases a Porsche, the buyer is "buying" not just the car, but also the seller. If the seller is able to be convincing of their level of expertise and skill with respect to repairs and maintenance (say for example someone like Petza914), then the importance of any documentation would fade.
So - to answer your question, to me, no - DYI maintenance would not provide the same reassurance (translated as tangible value) as having documented history of the work (validating that it was done and also giving some insight as to the caliber of work based on where it was done.)
That being said - when one purchases a Porsche, the buyer is "buying" not just the car, but also the seller. If the seller is able to be convincing of their level of expertise and skill with respect to repairs and maintenance (say for example someone like Petza914), then the importance of any documentation would fade.
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From: Central CT
Depends on the job and the DIY'er. Threads on buying these cars often talk about "buying the seller" if buying privately. In other words, when you buy privately, you get to meet the seller, and you may also see their other vehicles and home, which can give you an idea of how the car was treated and maintained. I vastly prefer this to a dealer purchase.
Regardless, DIY takes "buying the seller" to a new level, and may or may not add value. My car is a good example with its home brew engine rebuild. I think I did a good job, but I harbor no illusions that my car would sell for as much as an identical car with a Raby rebuild or a Porsche reman engine. However, it may be worth as much as a car with an engine built by a local Porsche shop that lacks the broad name recognition that Jake or LN or some other big guys have. On the plus side, I have every single part documented, and you get to ask questions to the guy that did the actual work.
On the other end of things, I'd take a car with a stack of backyard oil changes over a car with a stack of Iffy Lube oil changes in a heartbeat.
Keep in mind with DYI that quality of workmanship is on trial when the seller inspects the car, so finding a missing fastener on the belly pan can call into question the care taken during the IMSB install...so it can be fraught with peril.
So I guess where I'm going is that DYI is rarely a positive, can be neutral if well documented, and can be a negative.
Regardless, DIY takes "buying the seller" to a new level, and may or may not add value. My car is a good example with its home brew engine rebuild. I think I did a good job, but I harbor no illusions that my car would sell for as much as an identical car with a Raby rebuild or a Porsche reman engine. However, it may be worth as much as a car with an engine built by a local Porsche shop that lacks the broad name recognition that Jake or LN or some other big guys have. On the plus side, I have every single part documented, and you get to ask questions to the guy that did the actual work.
On the other end of things, I'd take a car with a stack of backyard oil changes over a car with a stack of Iffy Lube oil changes in a heartbeat.
Keep in mind with DYI that quality of workmanship is on trial when the seller inspects the car, so finding a missing fastener on the belly pan can call into question the care taken during the IMSB install...so it can be fraught with peril.
So I guess where I'm going is that DYI is rarely a positive, can be neutral if well documented, and can be a negative.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2011
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From: RALEIGH, NC
Personally, I do everything myself and would not trust an official dealer. I am way too demanding for the level of quality that these guys provides....
Occasionally, I may use an independent shop but will do the work with the Indy mechanic. It is teamwork at that level and I only use their best mechanic.
So, yes DIY in full spectrum. Dealers are a waste of time, money and quite often you have to do it again.
Yves
Occasionally, I may use an independent shop but will do the work with the Indy mechanic. It is teamwork at that level and I only use their best mechanic.
So, yes DIY in full spectrum. Dealers are a waste of time, money and quite often you have to do it again.
Yves
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From: SoCal
I know when I sold my I Cayman on Cars & Bids last year, having all of my work documented with photos and part numbers in a detailed thread led to a higher winning bid. I know this because he specifically referenced all my work when he picked up the car.
With Indy shop/dealer invoices, there's confirmation the work was done but I think there's something about seeing actual pictures that provides a sense of comfort and confidence that goes a long way.
With Indy shop/dealer invoices, there's confirmation the work was done but I think there's something about seeing actual pictures that provides a sense of comfort and confidence that goes a long way.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2013
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From: Bay Area on the Peninsula
It depends on the DIY. Anyone who pulls into my driveway can see 4 Ferraris and 2 Porsches, a lift, and a 355 engine sitting out on the garage floor while I do cam timing on it. If he then questions the "quality of my work" then he is not the buyer for this car. Move on, life is short. There will be buyers that see that value in the proper DIY.
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From: Denver CO
I prefer seeing meticulous DIY parts receipts / records from a private seller. The dealer (or indy) wants the car off the lift asap to get the next car on it, and make the most money. They will often replace the part that failed, without much diagnosis as to WHY the part failed, like an enthusiast would. The tech is there as a job, is it Monday or Friday? Is he hung over? Most DIY guys are doing it for fun, taking care of all the "while you're in there" items, and usually upgrading parts from oem or buying the nice part since they aren't paying labor or arguing with the dealer about the merits of oem parts only. If these were econobox cars, the argument may change. The fact is; these are enthusiast cars, and most who are brave enough to DIY, have a long track record / experience of DIY, maintenance, and a passion for cars.
I'll admit I am probably in the minority, and most people would rather see a stack of receipts from the dealer or a well known indy, which would make the car at a minimum, easier to sell. Also likely worth a bit more.
I'll admit I am probably in the minority, and most people would rather see a stack of receipts from the dealer or a well known indy, which would make the car at a minimum, easier to sell. Also likely worth a bit more.
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From: nj
my car was serviced by Porsche dealer before I bought it. When I replaced my exhaust I found missing bolt that keeps driver side turbo attached to support bracket.. Needless to say, I buy the seller not who serviced the car. Lessen learned, since I bought the car from the P-dealer.. Now Im doing all maintenance myself even tough I purchased warranty as well, just wasted 5k
Last edited by markmark26; Mar 22, 2022 at 09:07 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2017
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From: Austin, TX
These days I just do my own oil changes backed with a Blackstone Test at every oil change.
Everything else is at my Indie Repair Place, I don’t have much time these days to wrench.
If someone doesn’t like it, pound sand.
There are plenty of buyers out there.
Everything else is at my Indie Repair Place, I don’t have much time these days to wrench.
If someone doesn’t like it, pound sand.
There are plenty of buyers out there.
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From: Mt Juliet, TN
Some really good discussion here. I’m in the buy the seller camp, be it dealer or private party. Too many iffy auction cars in an inflated market that have zero or near zero maintenance provenance. Skippy at the Luxury Auto Corral could just be slapping some quick camouflage on a real expensive money pit. There’s value added for good wrenching. Some posters mention trepidation about Porsche dealer maintenance on 996s/997s. Yes, me too. Not enough old Gold-level talent around anymore to make me confident placing my 996 in their care. Right Skip?
A PCA member/mega enthusiast type of owner with a real love of P cars can present you a well loved and maintained car with a reasonably well-documented regimen of DIY and indie attention for, most likely, a much more reasonable price. Any DIY seller who properly documents all service and repairs, modifications done at home or at an indie, along with the requisite knowledge of the car and it’s systems, will be able to tell me almost everything I need to know prior to PPI findings. Also, as a big DIY guy, if I had to sell (extremely unlikely), I’d want to make sure the prospect would give the car a decent home. A private party DIY seller probably has a good bit of extra goodies, either removed or next to be installed, for you to take home with that car.
As always, as mentioned ad nauseum, caveat emptor.
A PCA member/mega enthusiast type of owner with a real love of P cars can present you a well loved and maintained car with a reasonably well-documented regimen of DIY and indie attention for, most likely, a much more reasonable price. Any DIY seller who properly documents all service and repairs, modifications done at home or at an indie, along with the requisite knowledge of the car and it’s systems, will be able to tell me almost everything I need to know prior to PPI findings. Also, as a big DIY guy, if I had to sell (extremely unlikely), I’d want to make sure the prospect would give the car a decent home. A private party DIY seller probably has a good bit of extra goodies, either removed or next to be installed, for you to take home with that car.
As always, as mentioned ad nauseum, caveat emptor.
Last edited by hatchetf15; Mar 22, 2022 at 04:30 PM.
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From: Seattle, Washington
Most 911/997 Porsche owners are smart educated and many have excellent mechanical skills.
I would never hesitate to purchase a well documented 997 w/oil/filter services and minor replacement parts performed by it's owner.
I don't think it effects/diminishes value in any way.
After 35 years of shopping for lots of Porsche's you can always tell which cars have had loving responsible care.
The problem is when buyers rush and don't take the time for proper PPI/Bore Scope Insp/etc and have little patients to thoroughly check out the car they want to buy.
I get it that excitement brews and hard to sometimes relax when shopping for a Porsche.
I would never hesitate to purchase a well documented 997 w/oil/filter services and minor replacement parts performed by it's owner.
I don't think it effects/diminishes value in any way.
After 35 years of shopping for lots of Porsche's you can always tell which cars have had loving responsible care.
The problem is when buyers rush and don't take the time for proper PPI/Bore Scope Insp/etc and have little patients to thoroughly check out the car they want to buy.
I get it that excitement brews and hard to sometimes relax when shopping for a Porsche.
Last edited by groovzilla; Mar 22, 2022 at 03:48 PM.
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From: Denver CO
Isn't it funny how seemingly every dealer, just somehow magically loses every piece of service history other than what is listed on the carfax? I can count on one hand the number of dealer offered cars that had any sort of provenance or documentation (other than the all knowing carfax report)
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From: California
Isn't it funny how seemingly every dealer, just somehow magically loses every piece of service history other than what is listed on the carfax? I can count on one hand the number of dealer offered cars that had any sort of provenance or documentation (other than the all knowing carfax report)
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From: Seattle, Washington
Before that you could call and get records from any dealer with no problem.