J.Tan

As a future project for my 997.1 Carrera, I'm toying with the idea with either having the stock engine built by Flat Six Innovations (Stage 2 or R-Series) or do a GT3 engine swap.
For people that think "why don't you just sell your Carrera and buy a GT3 instead?". The Carrera is my daily and my only car. It's driven all year round regardless of weather. It's not the smartest thing to do to a GT3 judging by the market right now.

Before listing the pros and cons that I could think of. I believe there are a few common issues with both of them:
1. There's a hefty price tag involved for both. They would cost about the same all in.
2. They will most likely taking just as long to complete. So I would need a beater car to keep me mobile in the meantime.
3. Both of them will make the car very niche and will make the resale very difficult.

Build the stock engine:
Pros: 1. More grunt than even the GT3 engine.
2. Lots of support from Flat Six Innovations down the line.
3. Truly a special engine for the road that will last a long time.
Cons: 1. Waiting list is very long (I think it was 2 years?)

GT3 engine swap:
Pros: 1. The proper GT3 engine note and response.
2. Built-in dry sump.
3. Just cool to have a GT3 engine in a Carrera in general.
Cons: 1. More invasive than building stock engine. ECU and gauge cluster need to be swapped to defeat immobilizer. The chassis provision for the engine mounts will need to be cut off and have the GT3 version welded. So it is basically non reversible.
2. More things likely to go wrong during and after the swap as it's not commonly done, which also means the support will be nonexistent.

I'm curious to see what people think on this subject.

Saaboteur

I like the idea of the GT3 swap, but it is quite a big project. I wish it was better documented, but it's clearly do-able if you throw enough cash at it. The hardest part may be finding someone to do it for you, unless of course you can do it on your own. And I dunno what GT3 engine prices are like, but would you be spending the same for a second hand GT3 engine as you would for a built M97 engine?

hexagone

I'm not seeing it.

After the work is done you're into it for at least 80k - why not just look for a salvage GT3 or one with really high miles? Or even a 997.2S?

By the point you put that engine into it, not a single person will see it as 12/10 of a 997.1 but rather 3/10 of a GT3.

NAMR6MT

OP has done a crap load of weight saving measures/modifications on his 997. I can definitely see his reasoning behind wanting to keep the car. With his love of the car, upgrading the engine seems logical.

I'm local to you in case you want to experience a 3.8L stage II powered Cayman.

Sporty

My opinion is that your car would be much better sorted and valuable with the FSI motor in it. Swapping the GT3 involves a lot more modifications and makes the car more Frankenstein like....

Busta Rib

I will be the contrarian and advocate the for the GT3 engine swap. No matter how good/nice the FSI engine is (which it is), it will be no match to a GT3 engine, IMO. The power delivery, response, and sound of a GT3 engine is incomparable. Taking it to full song at 8,500 RPM (.2) is heavenly. I don't know what the redline is for a FSI engine, but suspect it isn't that high. When I first drove a GT3, I would let off at around 7,500 RPM because my ear/brain was telling me I needed to shift but the GT3 engine lets you keep going beyond what makes effing sense. It is truly amazing!

Like the OP, I feel the GT3 is too harsh as a daily. But the killer combo is a Carrera S/GTS with a GT3 engine. You get the daily comfort of a Carrera (sound deadening, softer suspension, easier transmission and clutch) matched with the glorious engine, which is 50% of a GT3 driving experience. All the pros/cons seem about right. You would end of with a Frankenstein car and a limited market of potential buyers if you ever sold. But if you don't give a flip and intend on keeping the car for awhile, it would be worth it. And all you need is one buyer.

Your cost analysis might be a bit off on the GT3 conversion. I saw a .2 GT3 engine and transmission for sale on Ebay recently. The seller was asking $35K for the engine and $15K for the transmission. Both supposedly had about 15K miles on them. That is a lot of coin and doesn't include the body work and shop time for all the other things you will need to do. All-in, I think you are looking at min $70K.

But if you add in the cost of your car, I suspect it would still be south of the $150K+ it would cost to get a decent GT3 in this market. Even after the conversion, it would never be worth a real GT3 but it would be way north of a Carrera S if the conversion is done right. If you can stay about 70-80% the cost of a GT3, I think the value prop could make sense. 997 GT3s are only going up from here, regardless of macroeconomic circumstances. The base GT3s will be north of $200K soon just based on how rare they are.

To me, this would be the dream spec 997 911: Carrera with GT3 engine. OP, good luck with your decision and keep us posted.

Hella-Buggin'

What about a midway swap and go for a DFI engine? Less fabrication then the gt3 swap and a better engine than the m97.

J.Tan

I appreciate people's input. To add to my original post, if I were to do the GT3 swap, I will have Newhall Mobileworks perform the job. That's the shop that did the GT3 swap in the video I posted. They will know exactly what parts to get and the work involved. Also based on the oil analysis, the current engine with 50k miles is in excellent health. I can recoup some a decent chunk of money if I decide to sell the stock engine when doing the GT3 swap.

The point of either having the stock engine built or swapping a GT3 engine is to make the heart of the car feel more special. Having higher output is a nice byproduct. The 9A1 engines in the 997.2 Carrera is just not special enough for me.

@NAMR6MT , I will pm you with my contact info. I'd love to check out your stage 2 3.8 and learn your experience with FSI.

DesmoSD

Since I have a .1 and the what-ifs are constantly knocking on our door. If my engine goes, I'd go GT3 in a heartbeat.



https://www.ladismantler.com/porsche...er-no-exhaust/

bgoetz

I am bias, but my vote is the FSI build. While
it won’t rev as high it will make as much if not more hp as the GT3 motor and the added torque and altered power delivery will give it a special feel that will be much more usable. Plus it is a completely rebuilt motor with better everything, who knows what you are getting with a GT3 donor motor.

I am a September 2022 build at FSI and just in this short amount of time working with Jake the experience has exceeded expectations. 2023 isn’t that long to wait and you can drive the **** out of what you have until then.

Petza914

I'd do the FSI build, especially since you don't currently have an engine problem and can drive the car while your wait list spot rolls around.

PV997

These types of questions are always fun but it's impossible to give a good answer without knowing more about the owner. From a dollars and cents POV, neither makes sense IMO. If money is not a concern then do whatever makes you happy, I'd go for the GT3 engine for the cool factor alone. If you are building a cost-is-no-object work of art then you may as well go all out. If you are worried about cost/resale then you might want to step back and reevaluate the entire idea, as you will take a big hit should you have to sell for whatever reason.

yelcab

I'm with the GT3 crowd (I have one). But, my opinion is IF you want a GT3, buy a GT3. Way cooler than any frankenstein porsche.

Fined

I'd say make it exactly how you want it. Porsche never sold a 997.2 GT3 with PDK. But I do want PDK and I'm satisfied with 408hp of my car vs 435 of 997.2 GT3. I wouldn't "upgrade" to a 997.2 GT3 because I want PDK. I wouldn't "upgrade" to a 991.1 GT3 because I like the size of my car along with hydraulic steering. Point is, these cars are highly customizable and if you plan on keeping it then there is value in making it how you'd like it. I'd go either direction, but if I were getting a built engine it would not be from FSI.

997ajk

I am voting for GT3 Swap.... While it maybe bit more complex, it's a better long term solution. (If you're keeping the car)