Doing a PPI - what big issues might come back?
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2021
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From: San Francisco, CA
Doing a PPI - what big issues might come back?
Seriously looking at a 997.2 C2 from out of state.
One strategy I picked up from here (that I am following) is negotiate the price first, then do the PPI and clarify that any issues will have an effect on the price.
So up front, what kinds of big issues might we be talking about?
Clutch?
Brake Pads?
RMS seal?
One strategy I picked up from here (that I am following) is negotiate the price first, then do the PPI and clarify that any issues will have an effect on the price.
So up front, what kinds of big issues might we be talking about?
Clutch?
Brake Pads?
RMS seal?
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,573
Likes: 1,115
From: Florida
Seriously looking at a 997.2 C2 from out of state.
One strategy I picked up from here (that I am following) is negotiate the price first, then do the PPI and clarify that any issues will have an effect on the price.
So up front, what kinds of big issues might we be talking about?
Clutch?
Brake Pads?
RMS seal?
One strategy I picked up from here (that I am following) is negotiate the price first, then do the PPI and clarify that any issues will have an effect on the price.
So up front, what kinds of big issues might we be talking about?
Clutch?
Brake Pads?
RMS seal?
No telling what may be discovered. Maybe nothing or big things. I've bought several cars this way including one 997 but I took it it one step further. Rather than making the price subject to reduction depending on the PPI report I made the entire purchase subject to the PPI. In other words, if I wasn't happy with the PPI I would have the option of walking away from the purchase with any and all down payment refunded in full. None of the sellers I made this arrangement with had a problem with it.
This is not an uncommon agreement. I don't even want to think about negotiating price depending on the PPI report having committed to buying the car subject to price adjustments based on the PPI. For starters, who'll decide who's asking for the most reasonable price reduction? Could be easily resolved but I can also envision a situation where the buyer and the seller have wildly different opinions on what the price reduction should be and where does it go from there? With just the price reduction depending on the PPI you have no way out of a bad PPI other than agreeing with the seller's new price. Or walk away and lose whatever money you had put down.
So I would keep it simple. Good PPI. Close the deal. Bad or questionable PPI, give yourself the option to scrap the deal with no money lost if you can't come to terms with the seller.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 389
Likes: 109
Seriously looking at a 997.2 C2 from out of state.
One strategy I picked up from here (that I am following) is negotiate the price first, then do the PPI and clarify that any issues will have an effect on the price.
So up front, what kinds of big issues might we be talking about?
Clutch?
Brake Pads?
RMS seal?
One strategy I picked up from here (that I am following) is negotiate the price first, then do the PPI and clarify that any issues will have an effect on the price.
So up front, what kinds of big issues might we be talking about?
Clutch?
Brake Pads?
RMS seal?
Rennlist Member
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 3,682
Likes: 2,897
From: Idaho
It's not just about the "big things".
It's also about how seemingly simple things like past-due maintenance can aggregate into a significant cost. Even if you do your own maintenance, it's not cheap.
Perhaps you've already done so, but if not, I would suggest that you carefully examine all documented maintenance that has been done on the car and compare that with Porsche's recommendations (based both on mileage and time.)
If there's no documentation, you should then view that as the maintenance has not been done. These cars are very reliable - if they have been properly maintained.
Other seemingly simple things add up. Tires (and then also figure in an alignment). Battery. Brake pads. Maybe new rotors.
It's also about how seemingly simple things like past-due maintenance can aggregate into a significant cost. Even if you do your own maintenance, it's not cheap.
Perhaps you've already done so, but if not, I would suggest that you carefully examine all documented maintenance that has been done on the car and compare that with Porsche's recommendations (based both on mileage and time.)
If there's no documentation, you should then view that as the maintenance has not been done. These cars are very reliable - if they have been properly maintained.
Other seemingly simple things add up. Tires (and then also figure in an alignment). Battery. Brake pads. Maybe new rotors.
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 127
Likes: 19
From: San Francisco, CA
I'm not a lawyer so this is not legal advice but there could be legal issues sneaking in here.
No telling what may be discovered. Maybe nothing or big things. I've bought several cars this way including one 997 but I took it it one step further. Rather than making the price subject to reduction depending on the PPI report I made the entire purchase subject to the PPI. In other words, if I wasn't happy with the PPI I would have the option of walking away from the purchase with any and all down payment refunded in full. None of the sellers I made this arrangement with had a problem with it.
This is not an uncommon agreement. I don't even want to think about negotiating price depending on the PPI report having committed to buying the car subject to price adjustments based on the PPI. For starters, who'll decide who's asking for the most reasonable price reduction? Could be easily resolved but I can also envision a situation where the buyer and the seller have wildly different opinions on what the price reduction should be and where does it go from there? With just the price reduction depending on the PPI you have no way out of a bad PPI other than agreeing with the seller's new price. Or walk away and lose whatever money you had put down.
So I would keep it simple. Good PPI. Close the deal. Bad or questionable PPI, give yourself the option to scrap the deal with no money lost if you can't come to terms with the seller.
No telling what may be discovered. Maybe nothing or big things. I've bought several cars this way including one 997 but I took it it one step further. Rather than making the price subject to reduction depending on the PPI report I made the entire purchase subject to the PPI. In other words, if I wasn't happy with the PPI I would have the option of walking away from the purchase with any and all down payment refunded in full. None of the sellers I made this arrangement with had a problem with it.
This is not an uncommon agreement. I don't even want to think about negotiating price depending on the PPI report having committed to buying the car subject to price adjustments based on the PPI. For starters, who'll decide who's asking for the most reasonable price reduction? Could be easily resolved but I can also envision a situation where the buyer and the seller have wildly different opinions on what the price reduction should be and where does it go from there? With just the price reduction depending on the PPI you have no way out of a bad PPI other than agreeing with the seller's new price. Or walk away and lose whatever money you had put down.
So I would keep it simple. Good PPI. Close the deal. Bad or questionable PPI, give yourself the option to scrap the deal with no money lost if you can't come to terms with the seller.
At this point it's really about knowing what I am getting myself into.
Trying to play out a few scenarios ahead of time, as I am a poor negotiator.
If it's 3k to fix something... Can I realistically delay the fix? Can I get the dealer to lower the 50k? Am I now willing to pay 50k + 3k to get a clean car? Should I just walk away?
Once I get attached to the idea of owning *this* car, it's hard to say no. Not wise, but just being honest...
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From: San Francisco, CA
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Nov 2019
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From: Idaho
(New tires and alignment, new battery, an axle seal repaired / replaced, a brake fluid flush, new air filters, and an oil change.)
I committed to purchase the car pending an acceptable PPI. When the various items came up as being needed, I agreed to purchase the car at their asking price (fair market value at the time) if they would complete those items as part of the deal. They ultimately agreed.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,344
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From: tampa
if a dealer doesnt cpo the car, its because it needs too much $ to make it worth it for them to sell. so they leave the bad news till the buyer owns the car, then 'hey you need all this work' Put another 10k in the car.
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Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Florida
Yeah I was a little fuzzy on that process. Without an agreement up front, it's no guarantee I can get a price shift I would need to feel good about a major issue.
At this point it's really about knowing what I am getting myself into.
Trying to play out a few scenarios ahead of time, as I am a poor negotiator.
At this point it's really about knowing what I am getting myself into.
Trying to play out a few scenarios ahead of time, as I am a poor negotiator.
As I see it, the important thing here is to have the purchase contract written where it states clearly and unconditionally that you are under no obligation to buy the car if you're not satisfied with the PPI and that any down payment will be refunded in full if you decide not to buy the car.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 14,902
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
impossible to adequately answer your open ended question. Instead, if you want to know what you might be getting into, read this thread : https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ers-guide.html and some of the other threads above in the sticky area, and educate yourself on the plusses and minuses of the 997, then figure out what is "big" to you and not so "big". Focus your ppi accordingly. Knowledge in advance is key, and this universe is big. The information is already here. Settle in for a good read. Good luck with your target car.
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Joined: Mar 2017
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From: Central CT
One thing to keep in mind is that things that are not looked for will not be found, and some things can't be looked at.
If your PPI does not include a boroscope of the cylinders, it is certain that scoring will not be found.
If the PPI does not include a Durametric scan, any faults or overrevs will not be found.
If a paint gauge is not used, old body work may not be found.
Clutch wear is nearly impossible to check; it's binary in that it either slips or it doesn't.
"PPI" is not a magic bullet. It must be spec'ed out correctly and completed carefully to align with your expectations.
If your PPI does not include a boroscope of the cylinders, it is certain that scoring will not be found.
If the PPI does not include a Durametric scan, any faults or overrevs will not be found.
If a paint gauge is not used, old body work may not be found.
Clutch wear is nearly impossible to check; it's binary in that it either slips or it doesn't.
"PPI" is not a magic bullet. It must be spec'ed out correctly and completed carefully to align with your expectations.