PV997

Thanks for posting the pics dgjks6, and apologies if my rant was a bit over the top. My annoyance is primarily at Porsche as they made a calculated business decision to falsely claim the PDK is unrepairable. The dealerships go along with this (they know who butters their bread) but they must know it's not true.

When a Porsche dealership says something is "not serviceable" they mean that they don't have an authorized procedure from Porsche on how to fix it. It doesn't mean it can't be done.

Here's a clear shot of the plug. I'd bet you $100 that plug can be easily removed and reinstalled with a new crush washer (and maybe a little sealant) and the problem is solved. Disconnect the parking pawl linkage first to get easier access.



There are several posters over in the PDK repair sticky that have opened up their gear cases and can probably tell you exactly what's on the other side of that plug. My only concern would be that it's not a plug but is actually holding something in place on the inside. I think the odds of this are really low since there's a screw right next to it and it looks like the other plugs but I'd try to confirm this prior to removing the plug.

You service advisor may be the most trustworthy guy in the world but if he claims the only option is to replace the PDK then he's uninformed. An honest assessment would be, "Porsche does not have an authorized repair for this, will not let dealerships fix this problem, and recommends replacing the transmission. An independent mechanic could probably fix this for a few hundred dollars".

PV997

One of the reasons I'm so determined to kill this "unrepairable PDK" myth is that eventually it will really harm resale values. The PDK is very reliable, but sooner or later these transmissions will start failing as things get old and wear out. If people think every $50 PDK internal that fails leads to an $18k repair bill then resale values will collapse. Compare to how ten-year old $100k Mercedes and BMW's are now only worth 10% of their original sale value. The reason is that they have way too much complicated technology that breaks and is insanely expensive to replace. Older Porsche's with PDKs will get the same reputation if we put up with this.

As I mentioned upthread we now have over two dozen people that have fixed their PDK despite being told it was "unrepairable" by the dealer. The how to and results are all documented in the PDK repair sticky and comments. Sooner or later the dealerships are going to have to recognize this fact and stop lying to people.

PV997

I realize this is likely covered by warranty so hopefully this is all a moot point, but I thought I'd document what's behind that plug in case someone has this same problem in the future.

Here's a nice cutaway that shows what's on the other side of the plug (white arrow). It looks like this is part of the hydraulic system for the shift forks which is consistent with the clear fluid leaking (as opposed to gear oil which is brownish). The clutch fluid is under pressure as it's driven by a pump. I don't know what's in that cavity but it could be something like a check valve or a metering orifice. That hole to the left of the cavity is where the bolt seen in comment #31 screws in.

First thing I'd do is check is that the plug is properly tightened. Assuming that's good, I'd back the plug out several turns but not remove it all the way as there may be spring-loaded components behind it. I'd then clean the exposed threads, coat them with thread sealant, and then retighten it. Give the sealant some time to set up before starting the car (which will drive the clutch fluid pump and put the fluid under pressure). You may need to run the PIWIS or Autotel fill procedure to bleed the clutch hydraulics if air seeped in but maybe not.




If it's not covered under warranty, what do you have to lose? Worst case it doesn't work and you're back where you started.

dgjks6

Thanks for all the pics and info

I'll call tomorrow and see if they pulled the plug or not.

I do agree it's crazy that this leak is an $18,000 fix. But it does explain why the warranty was $6700.

PV997

I posted on this over on the PDK repair sticky and @amet (who has a garage in the UAE and has repaired numerous PDKs) said he's had this plug out before when flushing a PDK and didn't have any issues. He said he'd take a look at one of the PDKs in his shop and report if he finds anything of interest. I'll update here if there's new info.

Yeah, if a warranty is going to pay for this then you may as well get your money's worth. My concern is that if the PDK gets a reputation that you have to carry a warranty then values will plummet. Look at what happens to McLaren prices once they go out of factory warranty, it isn't pretty. The more reports of people fixing PDKs themselves the better.

dgjks6

I appreciate all the help. I would love to know what he says.

I also share the concern about the PDK. When I got mine the price gap between a manual and PDK was negligible and I went with an automatic since it was going to be my DD after a lifetime of manuals. I keep hoping that this being America someone sees the opportunity and starts a PDK rebuild service.

dgjks6

So I was just going through this thread and I took a pic of the plug in question by accident. I thought it was the fill plug and circled it on green. Weird part is, it's a clear pic and there was no fluid there. That plug leaking does explain how the fluid got where it did. Also when I checked the car hadn't been driven in a while and when they inspected it, it was after a 45 minute drive to the dealer. But still...

Anyway, here's hoping the warranty covers it.

And just for fun. I'm gonna go over my Porsche ownership experience

First Porsche 996 - for a rare 99 with a bad IMS
Second Porsche - Macan S - got a timing cover leak
Third Porsche - 997 - PDK leak
Fourth Porsche - 2020 Cayenne - now wondering what multi thousand dollar Porsche engineering defect is going to arise

dgjks6

Update. Was a little worried because initial diagnosis was leaking fill plug, then I thought they pulled that plug and it turned out not to be the fill plug. But the SA said they have done nothing and plan is to top off the fluid and get the car back and drive it until the parts come in. He said they were told not to pull that plug because it holds in something for the shifter mechanism.

318touring

Seeking clarification from @ryantt from post #19 above, the maintenance book states:
every 6 years - replace clutch oil
every 12 years - replace transmission oil

2 questions:
- gear oil == transmission oil?
- replacing clutch oil will require replacing the oil pan too?

Thanks!

Body In White

Correct.

The PDK filter is part of the pan. In order to replace the filter, you have to replace the pan. I wouldn’t replace the filter (and pan) at the 6 year mark.

Wayne Smith

The confusion here is because the service interval doubled when the 991 was introduced. The 997 is every 60K miles or 6 years with the filter in the non reusable pan being replaced every other interval. The gear oil (differential) is every 120K miles or 12 years.

Fullyield

Wayne is correct although most 991.1 PDK owners I know choose to still follow the 997 maintenance schedule changing PDK clutch oil fluid at 6 years/60k miles. FYI - Porsche also added both a clutch fluid cooler as well as a transmission gear oil cooler to the 991.1 models.

PV997

Minor correction in that the 997/987 did have the clutch fluid cooler but not the gear oil pump/cooler (added in 2013 to the 991/981). Apologies for the nitpick Fullyfield, but Porsche and the dealerships have spread so much misinformation about the PDK I've become obsessed with catching erroneous info before it takes off. Appreciate your contributions on this subject.

Looking into this I can't find any good explanation for the increased 12 year clutch fluid service interval for the 991/981. Perhaps addition of the gear oil cooler decreased clutch fluid temps as they are in adjacent compartments. Nothing else substantive changed as far as I can tell, maybe Porsche just decided their 997/987 interval was overly conservative.

Wayne Smith

60K and 120K mile services on my car ... when drained we had clear new looking clutch fluid each time with an absolutely clean filter. The increased service interval for the 991 may have been from experience.

No UOAs so the above is somewhat anecdotal.

Fullyield

Thank you. I agree and was what I meant to say….should have slowed down and reworded the sentence. I appreciate the correction PV997 and all that you are doing for our community. My guess is the additional cooler might be more emissions related as it warms the fluid quicker during cold starts and increases efficiency as well as cools the fluid when hot….but just a guess.