997.1 C2S right car for HPDE?
02-06-2022, 04:26 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
Yes, it is a good read. I got into this thread looking for comments on Ferodo DS2500 pads but followed it because the OP has the same car as I do and seems to be in about the same situation as me as far as DE progress goes. My interest had to do with the high oil temp issue.
Last spring during a hot weekend at Summit Point Shenandoah, I had similar high oil temp issues (touching 250), and even had some Saturday post-session cylinder misfire faults that I think could have been attributed to that because I was not adequately cooling the car after coming off. Interestingly, I had a third radiator at the time but it didn't seem to make the difference I had hoped for. So, I asked a few folks at the event what might be the issue. A common answer I got back was to switch to Sport Mode. Up to that time I kept the car in standard mode to help keep my gas inputs as smooth as possible. So I tried Sport Mode on Sunday and it really seemed to work. Turns out the added throttle response did not affect my smoothness and I picked up the pace (of course
). After I got home I did some web and RL search on this aspect and found decent consensus that Sport Mode does improve cooling (at least for a 997.1S). But honestly I'm not sure I came away with a 100% clear answer on why that happens. Perhaps there are those who have firm knowledge about this?
I will also say that changing to a low temp thermostat (LNE 71C) this past fall (before a hot weekend at VIR) seemed to improve things even more. Like others, I was surprised and disappointed to learn that the Porsche water temp gauge is a "fake".
Additionally, I am now having a oil sump kit (1/2qt Tarett + baffles) added to guard against the oil delivery concerns mentioned in this thread. I know it is not the size of the 2 qt version but I was afraid of hitting that on these #$%! roads around here.
I use the Liqui Moly 5W-40 synthetic Leichtflauf oil. Any thoughts on that versus other oils mentioned in this post? I am a low intermediate DE driver.
Many good tips in this thread about subtle ways to optimize oil cooling/delivery while on the track. As always, some excellent folks here!
Cheers,
Steve
Last spring during a hot weekend at Summit Point Shenandoah, I had similar high oil temp issues (touching 250), and even had some Saturday post-session cylinder misfire faults that I think could have been attributed to that because I was not adequately cooling the car after coming off. Interestingly, I had a third radiator at the time but it didn't seem to make the difference I had hoped for. So, I asked a few folks at the event what might be the issue. A common answer I got back was to switch to Sport Mode. Up to that time I kept the car in standard mode to help keep my gas inputs as smooth as possible. So I tried Sport Mode on Sunday and it really seemed to work. Turns out the added throttle response did not affect my smoothness and I picked up the pace (of course
). After I got home I did some web and RL search on this aspect and found decent consensus that Sport Mode does improve cooling (at least for a 997.1S). But honestly I'm not sure I came away with a 100% clear answer on why that happens. Perhaps there are those who have firm knowledge about this?I will also say that changing to a low temp thermostat (LNE 71C) this past fall (before a hot weekend at VIR) seemed to improve things even more. Like others, I was surprised and disappointed to learn that the Porsche water temp gauge is a "fake".
Additionally, I am now having a oil sump kit (1/2qt Tarett + baffles) added to guard against the oil delivery concerns mentioned in this thread. I know it is not the size of the 2 qt version but I was afraid of hitting that on these #$%! roads around here.
I use the Liqui Moly 5W-40 synthetic Leichtflauf oil. Any thoughts on that versus other oils mentioned in this post? I am a low intermediate DE driver.
Many good tips in this thread about subtle ways to optimize oil cooling/delivery while on the track. As always, some excellent folks here!
Cheers,
Steve
02-07-2022, 09:59 AM
#62
Another reason I'm using XP9 is to avoid being pennywise and pound foolish. If I were to try to save a few bucks on "regular" oil and I blew my engine on a track day, I'd struggle to forgive myself. I'd be absolutely convinced that if I'd only used the right oil, it never would have happened. Probably B.S., but that's how my mind works. If, on the other hand, I've taken all "reasonable" precautions, and I still blow it, I'll tell myself that I knew the risks and got unlucky. Time for a 4.0 track rebuild.
02-07-2022, 07:55 PM
#63
I also use and suggest XP9. Mainly because I'm an idiot and trust the people that designed it specifically for the M9X engine. They are a small company, completely vested in putting out proper information for a small segment of people that tend to be super ****.
Cw
Cw
02-08-2022, 09:37 AM
#66
Rennlist Member
Never used Liqui Moly, but my brief research tells me that it is not a dedicated race oil. I've been using XP9 ever since my first HPDE where I used Mobil1 on day one and Driven DT40 on day two (hoping that fresh/better oil would help with cooling). I've decided to go with the dedicated race oil to help mitigate the risk of engine damage. There is a ton a technical info on this site and others going into the differences, but my layman's understanding is that the additives in race oil offer maximum wear protection, but only for a short time (500-1000 miles, depending on how much of that is on track). I made a number of modifications to the car at one time, so I can't tell you which mods had the most benefit, but I do know that I've seen significantly improved oil cooling with XP9, 3rd radiator and a deep sump.
Another reason I'm using XP9 is to avoid being pennywise and pound foolish. If I were to try to save a few bucks on "regular" oil and I blew my engine on a track day, I'd struggle to forgive myself. I'd be absolutely convinced that if I'd only used the right oil, it never would have happened. Probably B.S., but that's how my mind works. If, on the other hand, I've taken all "reasonable" precautions, and I still blow it, I'll tell myself that I knew the risks and got unlucky. Time for a 4.0 track rebuild.
Another reason I'm using XP9 is to avoid being pennywise and pound foolish. If I were to try to save a few bucks on "regular" oil and I blew my engine on a track day, I'd struggle to forgive myself. I'd be absolutely convinced that if I'd only used the right oil, it never would have happened. Probably B.S., but that's how my mind works. If, on the other hand, I've taken all "reasonable" precautions, and I still blow it, I'll tell myself that I knew the risks and got unlucky. Time for a 4.0 track rebuild.
). I will look into that by asking my track shop, who had recommended the Liqui Moly.Cheers
02-26-2022, 04:43 AM
#67
Looking for some collective wisdom. Took my 2006 C2S manual to a PCA HPDE in March at Carolina Motorsports Park. My second time out on a track and first with the 997. Ran in the green group and had a great time, learned a lot, etc. However, my oil temps got up to slightly north of 250 during some runs (maybe 260?) and a did see oil pressure dip during longer right hand turns (never below 2.5). I had fresh oil in, but DT40, not racing oil. Running new street tires (PS4s), Bilstein B12 suspension (B8s + springs), IDP plenum, GT3 TB, high flow cats, Fister exhaust. No third radiator or larger sump. In between runs I googled 997.1 oil temps and most of what I saw was "250-260 is fine, modern synthetic can take it easily." Weather was right around mid-60s F for the day.
Speed Test
I'm heading to VIR in May. I'm trying to decide whether I want to take the 997 or my 2015 Chevy SS 6MT. I've had both on the track and the 997 is more fun, but am thinking that an LS3 is a safer bet on track (plus cheaper to repair/replace). If what I describe above in terms of oil temps and pressure sounds like no big deal to the experts, I might go with the 997. If there were additional, time and cost efficient improvements I could make to the 997 in the next few weeks to keep it cooler on the track, I'd consider those too. Racing oil? Third radiator? Someday (yes someday...) I hope to put an FSI track performer or R40 in the car, but that's years off.
Help me think through this. The track is the only place where you can safely get a good sense for what these cars can do, and I loved having it out there, but oiling issues are making me nervous. Does the "beginner on street tires and mostly stock suspension, so no issues" rule apply? Or should I take my more "full figured" SS girl to the dance?
Speed Test
I'm heading to VIR in May. I'm trying to decide whether I want to take the 997 or my 2015 Chevy SS 6MT. I've had both on the track and the 997 is more fun, but am thinking that an LS3 is a safer bet on track (plus cheaper to repair/replace). If what I describe above in terms of oil temps and pressure sounds like no big deal to the experts, I might go with the 997. If there were additional, time and cost efficient improvements I could make to the 997 in the next few weeks to keep it cooler on the track, I'd consider those too. Racing oil? Third radiator? Someday (yes someday...) I hope to put an FSI track performer or R40 in the car, but that's years off.
Help me think through this. The track is the only place where you can safely get a good sense for what these cars can do, and I loved having it out there, but oiling issues are making me nervous. Does the "beginner on street tires and mostly stock suspension, so no issues" rule apply? Or should I take my more "full figured" SS girl to the dance?
Last edited by mascudkoray; 02-26-2022 at 06:38 AM.