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Alright, I got that too and was so concerned that I had the AOS changed; not a cheap thing to do because of the labor involved. The old AOS looked fine and indeed the new AOS did the same smoke at startup after a hot run....
This was cured, knock on wood, by running the oil level not at the top and, importantly, always letting the car idle for 5 minutes after a session. This allows the oil dust to settle and the AOS to desaturate. Otherwise, the saturated oil on the AOS forms a few drops that run down into the intake. It only take a few drops to make a phenomenal oil cloud that takes a minute or so to clear up...
Last PCA event I was at I saw a 991 GTS do the same oil cloud at startup thing and the 1978 SC next to me was overfilled by the owner and barfed the surplus oil all over its engine bay; that was a bit more smoke...
Alright, I got that too and was so concerned that I had the AOS changed; not a cheap thing to do because of the labor involved. The old AOS looked fine and indeed the new AOS did the same smoke at startup after a hot run....
This was cured, knock on wood, by running the oil level not at the top and, importantly, always letting the car idle for 5 minutes after a session. This allows the oil dust to settle and the AOS to desaturate. Otherwise, the saturated oil on the AOS forms a few drops that run down into the intake. It only take a few drops to make a phenomenal oil cloud that takes a minute or so to clear up...
Last PCA event I was at I saw a 991 GTS do the same oil cloud at startup thing and the 1978 SC next to me was overfilled by the owner and barfed the surplus oil all over its engine bay; that was a bit more smoke...
Thanks!! What about the deep sump, does this help as well? I went X51 baffle before I considered I was going to track the car a good bit. Now I think the deep sump might have been a decent choice.
Thanks!! What about the deep sump, does this help as well? I went X51 baffle before I considered I was going to track the car a good bit. Now I think the deep sump might have been a decent choice.
I have the LN 2qt deep sump. It uses similar style baffles as the X51 but improved, as it also includes a splash pan (I think that's what it's called). It's a really nice piece of kit.
for the AOS, after a session I would drive around for about 15 minutes and then let it idle for a few before shutting down. I started getting the smoke on startup between runs but then noticed when I left and went to starbucks drive thu, it didn't do it on the next start up. The AOS gets overwhelmed and let's aerated oil into the intake which pools in the heads. Driving around like a normal street car will burn it off so it won't pool and smoke.
I'm interested in what oils y'all are running when you're tracking. As noted above, I run the Driven Xp9 and have never had any smoke or AOS issues. Even at NCCAR, where there is a VERY long, bowl. Track is run both directions...
Looking for some collective wisdom. Took my 2006 C2S manual to a PCA HPDE in March at Carolina Motorsports Park. My second time out on a track and first with the 997. Ran in the green group and had a great time, learned a lot, etc. However, my oil temps got up to slightly north of 250 during some runs (maybe 260?) and a did see oil pressure dip during longer right hand turns (never below 2.5). I had fresh oil in, but DT40, not racing oil. Running new street tires (PS4s), Bilstein B12 suspension (B8s + springs), IDP plenum, GT3 TB, high flow cats, Fister exhaust. No third radiator or larger sump. In between runs I googled 997.1 oil temps and most of what I saw was "250-260 is fine, modern synthetic can take it easily." Weather was right around mid-60s F for the day.
I'm heading to VIR in May. I'm trying to decide whether I want to take the 997 or my 2015 Chevy SS 6MT. I've had both on the track and the 997 is more fun, but am thinking that an LS3 is a safer bet on track (plus cheaper to repair/replace). If what I describe above in terms of oil temps and pressure sounds like no big deal to the experts, I might go with the 997. If there were additional, time and cost efficient improvements I could make to the 997 in the next few weeks to keep it cooler on the track, I'd consider those too. Racing oil? Third radiator? Someday (yes someday...) I hope to put an FSI track performer or R40 in the car, but that's years off.
Help me think through this. The track is the only place where you can safely get a good sense for what these cars can do, and I loved having it out there, but oiling issues are making me nervous. Does the "beginner on street tires and mostly stock suspension, so no issues" rule apply? Or should I take my more "full figured" SS girl to the dance?
Hey! I'll be at the PCA HPDE in May at VIR as well. I will look for you. What color is your car?
I will be in a black 2009 C2S cab.
Please tell me that comment was made in jest! Not sure what your experience has been, but I can drive mine hard without doing all of those extra things outlined above and everything is fine. I run in B group at club HPDE (one rung below A group, which is our most advanced) and advance solo in Auto Interests; for years, and with lots of other 997's and 996's, etc. I do hi-temp fluid and Pagid pads and track wheels. These cars are hardly "delicate". Sometimes I think we go way too far on these forums. If you have a stock 997 and are afraid of hurting it in an occasional club HPDE, especially in the less advanced groups, then you should have something else. YMMV
What Auto Interest events do you do? I instruct for them quite a bit, they are a great group.
What Auto Interest events do you do? I instruct for them quite a bit, they are a great group.
The one they run at Pitt Race - they do an excellent job, and some of our instructors from the Region (ARPCA) are involved there too with class room and in-car instruction for the newbs. They run a tight ship, at least here. I heard Chin is good too, and may try that as well, once the world gets back to normal.
To be properly set up for track in with a M97 engine, you need a couple things.
Xp9 race/track oil
Third radiator (with low temp thermostat)
Deep oil sump.
Without these, I believe, you're unnecessarily risking your engine.
997 excels on track. I love it. But the engine in stock form is lacking with today's tire technology. The oil system just isn't up to the task.
Cw
Took your advice (at that of others on this thread) and installed the third radiator, lower t-stat and the LN Engineering 2QT deep sump. 90 degrees in Charlotte today and I just took the car out for some very healthy exercise. Together, the new radiator and deep sump have significantly lowered my oil temps. Before install, I was seeing 225+ on the street in cooler weather and while not pushing the car as hard. Today I don't think the oil temp got over 210. This is based on the dash gauge and not OBD, but the relative difference is obvious. So far it also looks like I don't have any leaks at the sump, and the cooling system held good vacuum for the AirLift. I'll keep the skid plate off for a few more days to confirm everything stays dry, but I am really pleased right now. So may call it overkill, but I'd rather not take chances.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to get the work done in time for my trip to VIR (vendor messed up delivery of the deep sump and then took forever to swap it), so I took the Chevy SS. Had an awesome time, but driving the SS on the track just confirmed for me that the 997 is the right track car for me. SS did great and is a fast, fun car to drive on the track, but towards the end of the day the big girl cooked her brakes (even with Motul 660 and EBC BlueStuff pads) and I had to call a session short.
So, next track day the plan is to fill the 997 up with XP9 and swap in some more aggressive plans. Can't wait to get back out there.
Took your advice (at that of others on this thread) and installed the third radiator, lower t-stat and the LN Engineering 2QT deep sump. 90 degrees in Charlotte today and I just took the car out for some very healthy exercise. Together, the new radiator and deep sump have significantly lowered my oil temps. Before install, I was seeing 225+ on the street in cooler weather and while not pushing the car as hard. Today I don't think the oil temp got over 210. This is based on the dash gauge and not OBD, but the relative difference is obvious. So far it also looks like I don't have any leaks at the sump, and the cooling system held good vacuum for the AirLift. I'll keep the skid plate off for a few more days to confirm everything stays dry, but I am really pleased right now. So may call it overkill, but I'd rather not take chances.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to get the work done in time for my trip to VIR (vendor messed up delivery of the deep sump and then took forever to swap it), so I took the Chevy SS. Had an awesome time, but driving the SS on the track just confirmed for me that the 997 is the right track car for me. SS did great and is a fast, fun car to drive on the track, but towards the end of the day the big girl cooked her brakes (even with Motul 660 and EBC BlueStuff pads) and I had to call a session short.
So, next track day the plan is to fill the 997 up with XP9 and swap in some more aggressive plans. Can't wait to get back out there.
As someone who tracked his 997.1 for several years I will just say that you need to pay attention to oil pressure in right hand sweepers.
That's the weak spot due to the design of the scavenger pump system. Just ease up a bit in those turns and you'll prolong the life of your engine.
You can enter a turn with 5 bars of pressure and watch the gauge drop on you Mine has dropped all the way down to 2 Bar. If you're trying to keep 10 PSI / 1k RPM of pressure you'll realize that
you're dropping below that threshold. 5-7k RPM on 2 Bar (29 PSI) on every right hand sweeper turn will take it's toll.
Keep in mind you're in a 15 year old car with design issues and drive accordingly and you'll have lot's of smiles.
Last edited by Hella-Buggin'; 06-04-2021 at 11:02 AM.
As someone who tracked his 997.1 for several years I will just say that you need to pay attention to oil pressure in right hand sweepers.
That's the weak spot due to the design of the scavenger pump system. Just ease up a bit in those turns and you'll prolong the life of your engine.
You can enter a turn with 5 bars of pressure and watch the gauge drop on you Mine has dropped all the way down to 2 Bar. If you're trying to keep 10 PSI / 1k RPM of pressure you'll realize that
you're dropping below that threshold. 5-7k RPM on 2 Bar (29 PSI) on every right hand sweeper turn will take it's toll.
Keep in mind you're in a 15 year old car with design issues and drive accordingly and you'll have lot's of smiles.
Even after installing an LN Engineering 2QT deep sump with windage tray? I was definitely seeing the behavior that you describe before the deep sump, but I'm hoping and expecting that the deep sump and windage tray will have all but eliminated the issue.
I had the mantis deeps ump with windage tray and it lessened it but it's still an issue. It's more problematic the hotter the oil so I would do periotic cool down laps
once things got over 220. With the 3rd radiator you can knock it down to 200 by just short shifting for 1/2 a lap at high speeds.
Great day at the track yesterday. Pitt Race. Car didn't melt or explode either, drove just like a Porsche should. It kicks butt too. I also got bumped up from the B group to A (advance solo in our Club; D is beginner). This car runs with the best of them. I has a few mods, but nothing extreme.
Great day at the track yesterday. Pitt Race. Car didn't melt or explode either, drove just like a Porsche should. It kicks butt too. I also got bumped up from the B group to A (advance solo in our Club; D is beginner). This car runs with the best of them. I has a few mods, but nothing extreme.
Congratulations, on the bump up in class, way to go. I was there at Pitt Race with my 997 (black w/ yellow headlights) running in D class and was moved up to C for my last session. I actually talked to you at one point, asking you about what tire pressures you were running since we have similar tires. Have another question for you. What is the rear size of your wheels 18x10 or 18x11? Thanks
04-21-2021, 07:34 PM
. It kicks butt too. I also got bumped up from the B group to A (advance solo in our Club; D is beginner). This car runs with the best of them. I has a few mods, but nothing extreme.
