GTS Cars For Sale On The Web
07-30-2024, 05:20 AM
#2806
Nordschleife Master
07-30-2024, 07:09 AM
#2807
Rennlist Member
Nice build!
$119,455 MSRP.
Lacks nothing in options except extended leather on dash, door sills and PCM surround.
The included unpainted OEM lip and rockers and removed SPASM shocks are a nice bonus.
Driver seat bolster is surprisingly pristine for the mileage.
Sharky is great mod, as are the Speedster spoiler and PPF.
The ride height is nice, lower than OEM SPASM- but to some the deletion/deactivation of PASM
is a poor trade-off for track focused shocks and a ride height that has already scraped that pretty Speedster painted lip.
Interior Exclusive Options are tasteful and expensive- amazingly undamaged carbon door sills included.
Thicker factory wheel is nice, but not a fan of the MF switches on a track focused car (Ohlins and fire extinguisher).
Headwinds to $100K+ hammer are miles (56K), most common color (30% of all GTS are CW).
I predict a hammer close to $100K, but not more given the miles and PASM deletion.
I personally would not give up active suspension with a DSC box to lower a GTS that much.
Stance does look great, even with the crappy offset OEM Fuchs RS Spyders. Lowering tucks them in nicely.
The Ohlins are $3.6K at Sharkwerks, the EDC delete PASM kit is $510...plus 2 hours install labor...so to some, it's a good trade.
$119,455 MSRP.
Lacks nothing in options except extended leather on dash, door sills and PCM surround.
The included unpainted OEM lip and rockers and removed SPASM shocks are a nice bonus.
Driver seat bolster is surprisingly pristine for the mileage.
Sharky is great mod, as are the Speedster spoiler and PPF.
The ride height is nice, lower than OEM SPASM- but to some the deletion/deactivation of PASM
is a poor trade-off for track focused shocks and a ride height that has already scraped that pretty Speedster painted lip.
Interior Exclusive Options are tasteful and expensive- amazingly undamaged carbon door sills included.
Thicker factory wheel is nice, but not a fan of the MF switches on a track focused car (Ohlins and fire extinguisher).
Headwinds to $100K+ hammer are miles (56K), most common color (30% of all GTS are CW).
I predict a hammer close to $100K, but not more given the miles and PASM deletion.
I personally would not give up active suspension with a DSC box to lower a GTS that much.
Stance does look great, even with the crappy offset OEM Fuchs RS Spyders. Lowering tucks them in nicely.
The Ohlins are $3.6K at Sharkwerks, the EDC delete PASM kit is $510...plus 2 hours install labor...so to some, it's a good trade.
Last edited by Liste-Renn; 07-30-2024 at 07:13 AM.
07-30-2024, 07:15 AM
#2808
Rennlist Member
I'm sure I'm misreading this somehow since I know you know the GTS top to bottom. I haven't read this entire thread but what I put in bold above could possibly lead someone to think that the wheel gap on a GTS with CL wheels can be fixed with spacers. I have to assume your comment refers to rare 5 lug wheels on the GTS.
I fixed it.
I was ambiguously referring to the sole advantage, IMO, of 5-lug wheels. Spacers.
Last edited by Liste-Renn; 07-30-2024 at 07:17 AM.
07-30-2024, 02:22 PM
#2809
Rennlist Member
Gerry, I love your enthusiasm for all things GTS and Porsche but respectfully disagree with your assessments about CLs. From a functional and performance standpoint on street cars, CLs are net-neutral, if not a disadvantage, to 5-lugs. The wheel itself and inherent weight makes the biggest difference in unsprung weight/mass, not the fact that it is CL vs 5-lug mechanism. CL is a function of race cars wanting/needing the ability to change a wheel faster in a pitstop. With the right CL system, tools, and personnel, CLs are definitely much faster for swapping wheels/tires. But how often are any of us simulating this scenario and have a pit crew at a track day? For 99.9% of GTS drivers, I suspect never. For most of us, if you want quicker/easier wheel/tire changes, install studs.
Unless you are a pro racer and have a support team at the track, CLs are a tactical and practical disadvantage. The process of removing and installing Porsche street CLs (even on GT cars) is just as cumbersome as loosening/tightening 5 bolts, if not moreso because if you do it wrong, you will completely eff up and break the system and put yourself and others in jeopardy. CLs need to be installed to exact specifications and process, including no grit whatsoever on the mating surface, exact torque spec, and everything needs to be loosened/tightened while the wheel is off the ground in a specific process where you tighten, loosen, and then re-tighten. Many people are unaware of the proper process and maintenance. You have a lot more wiggle room with 5-lug wheels than CLs and the risk of failure is much higher if you screw things up with CLs. There is a reason most GT3 owners who regularly track their cars convert their CLs to 5-lugs. If CLs actually provided a tactical and performance advantage, they would not make this change.
Finally, unless you are driving in urban and well-populated areas, it is potentially much more of a PITA to get a flat with CLs. I always carried the proper torque wrench (about $500) in the frunk of my GT3 because I didn't want to be stranded out in the middle of nowhere and be dependent on finding a flatbed. Plus, even if you can get your car flatbedded to a shop, there is a high likelyhood the shop would not have the proper torque wrench to remove the CL nut. The wrench needs to go over 400 lb. ft. How many shops have one of these wrenches?
Aesthetically, the appeal of CLs is subjective and I can understand the appeal because it is unique from most street cars and adds that wow factor. But don't be fooled that Porsche added CLs for performance reasons. It was and continues to be a marketing ploy to differentiate the performance models from the rest of the pack.
Unless you are a pro racer and have a support team at the track, CLs are a tactical and practical disadvantage. The process of removing and installing Porsche street CLs (even on GT cars) is just as cumbersome as loosening/tightening 5 bolts, if not moreso because if you do it wrong, you will completely eff up and break the system and put yourself and others in jeopardy. CLs need to be installed to exact specifications and process, including no grit whatsoever on the mating surface, exact torque spec, and everything needs to be loosened/tightened while the wheel is off the ground in a specific process where you tighten, loosen, and then re-tighten. Many people are unaware of the proper process and maintenance. You have a lot more wiggle room with 5-lug wheels than CLs and the risk of failure is much higher if you screw things up with CLs. There is a reason most GT3 owners who regularly track their cars convert their CLs to 5-lugs. If CLs actually provided a tactical and performance advantage, they would not make this change.
Finally, unless you are driving in urban and well-populated areas, it is potentially much more of a PITA to get a flat with CLs. I always carried the proper torque wrench (about $500) in the frunk of my GT3 because I didn't want to be stranded out in the middle of nowhere and be dependent on finding a flatbed. Plus, even if you can get your car flatbedded to a shop, there is a high likelyhood the shop would not have the proper torque wrench to remove the CL nut. The wrench needs to go over 400 lb. ft. How many shops have one of these wrenches?
Aesthetically, the appeal of CLs is subjective and I can understand the appeal because it is unique from most street cars and adds that wow factor. But don't be fooled that Porsche added CLs for performance reasons. It was and continues to be a marketing ploy to differentiate the performance models from the rest of the pack.
You both make technical points but I stand by every remark made I wrote above.
I would only add that rarity or uniqueness of in itself is not a virtue. Only becomes one if that virtue is a positive trait.
There's a reason 95% of GTS were delivered with CL. People preferred them. They are exclusive and appear in virtually every high-end aftermarket wheel advertisement.
They look better, weigh less and I assume they have associated maintenance costs-- of which I have incurred none in 26K mile of hard canyon driving. I get them inspected at every tire change and wear-wise, they remain pristine. Lube them with the proper grease and relax, they are not a PITA or money PIT.
If you get a flat, call for a flatbed. Geez.
Petza cites maintenance costs as prohibitive. Come on, these are Porsches. You want economical? Buy a Camry.
Titanium lug nuts and ultra light bespoke wheels are solutions to inherent 5-lug design disadvantages. Not inherently superior.
A more costly mod would be to convert to 5-lugs from CL, or vice versa. That $ will buy lots of CL wheel servicing, maybe even a set of OEM Weissach package GT3 RS wheels- that don't even exist in 19".
There is a reason virtually ALL of the GT and unique/exclusive Porsches run CL wheels. It's not styling or economy.
I would only add that rarity or uniqueness of in itself is not a virtue. Only becomes one if that virtue is a positive trait.
There's a reason 95% of GTS were delivered with CL. People preferred them. They are exclusive and appear in virtually every high-end aftermarket wheel advertisement.
They look better, weigh less and I assume they have associated maintenance costs-- of which I have incurred none in 26K mile of hard canyon driving. I get them inspected at every tire change and wear-wise, they remain pristine. Lube them with the proper grease and relax, they are not a PITA or money PIT.
If you get a flat, call for a flatbed. Geez.
Petza cites maintenance costs as prohibitive. Come on, these are Porsches. You want economical? Buy a Camry.
Titanium lug nuts and ultra light bespoke wheels are solutions to inherent 5-lug design disadvantages. Not inherently superior.
A more costly mod would be to convert to 5-lugs from CL, or vice versa. That $ will buy lots of CL wheel servicing, maybe even a set of OEM Weissach package GT3 RS wheels- that don't even exist in 19".
There is a reason virtually ALL of the GT and unique/exclusive Porsches run CL wheels. It's not styling or economy.
The following 2 users liked this post by Busta Rib:
Acropora8 (07-30-2024),
ThunderRolls (07-30-2024)
07-31-2024, 04:17 AM
#2810
Nordschleife Master
07-31-2024, 05:27 AM
#2811
Nice build!
$119,455 MSRP.
Lacks nothing in options except extended leather on dash, door sills and PCM surround.
The included unpainted OEM lip and rockers and removed SPASM shocks are a nice bonus.
Driver seat bolster is surprisingly pristine for the mileage.
Sharky is great mod, as are the Speedster spoiler and PPF.
The ride height is nice, lower than OEM SPASM- but to some the deletion/deactivation of PASM
is a poor trade-off for track focused shocks and a ride height that has already scraped that pretty Speedster painted lip.
Interior Exclusive Options are tasteful and expensive- amazingly undamaged carbon door sills included.
Thicker factory wheel is nice, but not a fan of the MF switches on a track focused car (Ohlins and fire extinguisher).
Headwinds to $100K+ hammer are miles (56K), most common color (30% of all GTS are CW).
I predict a hammer close to $100K, but not more given the miles and PASM deletion.
I personally would not give up active suspension with a DSC box to lower a GTS that much.
Stance does look great, even with the crappy offset OEM Fuchs RS Spyders. Lowering tucks them in nicely.
The Ohlins are $3.6K at Sharkwerks, the EDC delete PASM kit is $510...plus 2 hours install labor...so to some, it's a good trade.
$119,455 MSRP.
Lacks nothing in options except extended leather on dash, door sills and PCM surround.
The included unpainted OEM lip and rockers and removed SPASM shocks are a nice bonus.
Driver seat bolster is surprisingly pristine for the mileage.
Sharky is great mod, as are the Speedster spoiler and PPF.
The ride height is nice, lower than OEM SPASM- but to some the deletion/deactivation of PASM
is a poor trade-off for track focused shocks and a ride height that has already scraped that pretty Speedster painted lip.
Interior Exclusive Options are tasteful and expensive- amazingly undamaged carbon door sills included.
Thicker factory wheel is nice, but not a fan of the MF switches on a track focused car (Ohlins and fire extinguisher).
Headwinds to $100K+ hammer are miles (56K), most common color (30% of all GTS are CW).
I predict a hammer close to $100K, but not more given the miles and PASM deletion.
I personally would not give up active suspension with a DSC box to lower a GTS that much.
Stance does look great, even with the crappy offset OEM Fuchs RS Spyders. Lowering tucks them in nicely.
The Ohlins are $3.6K at Sharkwerks, the EDC delete PASM kit is $510...plus 2 hours install labor...so to some, it's a good trade.
Interesting that the gauge cluster is in white. All the GTS's I've seen have black gauges. From what I've read, it seems like black is the standard and the white is an optional change on the GTS? Or maybe the owner changed it out. On the flip side, I think standard on Carrera S's is white gauges with the option for black ones if spec'd that way.
07-31-2024, 07:22 AM
#2812
Rennlist Member
Interesting that the gauge cluster is in white. All the GTS's I've seen have black gauges. From what I've read, it seems like black is the standard and the white is an optional change on the GTS? Or maybe the owner changed it out. On the flip side, I think standard on Carrera S's is white gauges with the option for black ones if spec'd that way.
The following users liked this post:
Mainah (08-01-2024)
07-31-2024, 12:20 PM
#2813
I wouldn't really expect a lower price on a Carrara White GTS vs. another colour. The price will come down much more to condition, mileage and options rather than colour. Some colours like red and yellow are more polarizing, but I don't think the market data really shows that white cars sell for less regardless of how common they are. If you're looking for RWD manual coupes, there are only 98 in CW anyway.
I hope the tendency for a higher price on non-CW GTS's still holds true for a few years until I'm in a position to seriously look for one. CW is my preferred color.
Interesting that the gauge cluster is in white. All the GTS's I've seen have black gauges. From what I've read, it seems like black is the standard and the white is an optional change on the GTS? Or maybe the owner changed it out. On the flip side, I think standard on Carrera S's is white gauges with the option for black ones if spec'd that way.
Interesting that the gauge cluster is in white. All the GTS's I've seen have black gauges. From what I've read, it seems like black is the standard and the white is an optional change on the GTS? Or maybe the owner changed it out. On the flip side, I think standard on Carrera S's is white gauges with the option for black ones if spec'd that way.
The following users liked this post:
Mainah (08-01-2024)
07-31-2024, 04:18 PM
#2814
I actually think white is quite a popular color. I personally would prefer it to black or silver.
07-31-2024, 04:37 PM
#2815
07-31-2024, 04:39 PM
#2816
08-01-2024, 07:31 PM
#2817
Rennlist Member
Gerry, (1) I love your enthusiasm for all things GTS and Porsche but respectfully disagree with your assessments about CLs. From a functional and performance standpoint on street cars, CLs are net-neutral, if not a disadvantage, to 5-lugs. (2)The wheel itself and inherent weight makes the biggest difference in unsprung weight/mass, not the fact that it is CL vs 5-lug mechanism. CL is a function of race cars wanting/needing the ability to change a wheel faster in a pitstop. With the right CL system, tools, and personnel, CLs are definitely much faster for swapping wheels/tires. But how often are any of us simulating this scenario and have a pit crew at a track day? For 99.9% of GTS drivers, I suspect never. For most of us, if you want quicker/easier wheel/tire changes, install studs.
Unless you are a pro racer and have a support team at the track, CLs are a tactical and practical disadvantage. The process of removing and installing Porsche street CLs (even on GT cars) is just as cumbersome as loosening/tightening 5 bolts, if not moreso because if you do it wrong, you will completely eff up and break the system and put yourself and others in jeopardy. CLs need to be installed to exact specifications and process, including no grit whatsoever on the mating surface, exact torque spec, and everything needs to be loosened/tightened while the wheel is off the ground in a specific process where you tighten, loosen, and then re-tighten. Many people are unaware of the proper process and maintenance. You have a lot more wiggle room with 5-lug wheels than CLs and the risk of failure is much higher if you screw things up with CLs. (3)There is a reason most GT3 owners who regularly track their cars convert their CLs to 5-lugs. If CLs actually provided a tactical and performance advantage, they would not make this change.
Finally, unless you are driving in urban and well-populated areas, it is potentially much more of a PITA to get a flat with CLs. (4) I always carried the proper torque wrench (about $500) in the frunk of my GT3 because I didn't want to be stranded out in the middle of nowhere and be dependent on finding a flatbed. Plus, even if you can get your car flatbedded to a shop, there is a high likelyhood the shop would not have the proper torque wrench to remove the CL nut. The wrench needs to go over 400 lb. ft. How many shops have one of these wrenches?
Aesthetically, the appeal of CLs is subjective and I can understand the appeal because it is unique from most street cars and adds that wow factor. But don't be fooled that Porsche added CLs for performance reasons. It was and continues to be a marketing ploy to differentiate the performance models from the rest of the pack.
Unless you are a pro racer and have a support team at the track, CLs are a tactical and practical disadvantage. The process of removing and installing Porsche street CLs (even on GT cars) is just as cumbersome as loosening/tightening 5 bolts, if not moreso because if you do it wrong, you will completely eff up and break the system and put yourself and others in jeopardy. CLs need to be installed to exact specifications and process, including no grit whatsoever on the mating surface, exact torque spec, and everything needs to be loosened/tightened while the wheel is off the ground in a specific process where you tighten, loosen, and then re-tighten. Many people are unaware of the proper process and maintenance. You have a lot more wiggle room with 5-lug wheels than CLs and the risk of failure is much higher if you screw things up with CLs. (3)There is a reason most GT3 owners who regularly track their cars convert their CLs to 5-lugs. If CLs actually provided a tactical and performance advantage, they would not make this change.
Finally, unless you are driving in urban and well-populated areas, it is potentially much more of a PITA to get a flat with CLs. (4) I always carried the proper torque wrench (about $500) in the frunk of my GT3 because I didn't want to be stranded out in the middle of nowhere and be dependent on finding a flatbed. Plus, even if you can get your car flatbedded to a shop, there is a high likelyhood the shop would not have the proper torque wrench to remove the CL nut. The wrench needs to go over 400 lb. ft. How many shops have one of these wrenches?
Aesthetically, the appeal of CLs is subjective and I can understand the appeal because it is unique from most street cars and adds that wow factor. But don't be fooled that Porsche added CLs for performance reasons. It was and continues to be a marketing ploy to differentiate the performance models from the rest of the pack.
You make valid points, Jim.
Just none that I agree with!
Let me preface this with "I'd rather be happy than right" !
2. Disagree that a lug design is somehow equivalent to a CL in the potential to shed weight, with all other factors being equal. Untrue.
3. I also particularly challenge that "most" GT3 owners who track converted to 5-lugs. Some did, especially when they debuted on the 997.2 RS- with teething problems that have been solved with education and a recall. Based on my own observations over the years- and I get around- most did/do not convert.
4. I don't own a multiplier and would not lug it around if I did. Any shop without the expertise would simply not touch my wheels. So, you gonna go buy a replacement tire in East Bumf*ck and R&R the wheels yourself after finding it in stock? Or let Clem Kadiddlehopper do it for you?
Disingenuous.
I'd rather FIND a flatbed (even with 5-lugs) than do either of the above, wait for my correct (likely a pair) of new tires, and let a Porsche or respected Indy do it for me. That's why roadside towing is an option on insurance policies. Flatbed reimbursement to an "appropriate" repair facility is how mine reads. Easy peasy.
Yeah, they came from racing, but, unlike knock off wire wheels of yore, they still manufacture them. EVERY high end wheel manufacturer carries, and advertises with, their CL models,
A quite small percentage of amateur GT car owners do track days requiring pit stops during a timed event. Basically none. So what is your point? Plenty of time between session to take wheels off for a tire swap or before/after driving to a track on street tires. If you are proficient, they take zero extra time vice a 5-lug to change. Read the forum.
Marketing is always a consideration, but if CL were somehow inferior, they would not be on the all 997.2, 991.1/2 and 992 GT cars, would they?
Also on virtually EVERY other super/hyper car marque.
And they finally appeared on the ultimate 718, the GT4RS.
Explain to me why they are on the CGT and every turbo/GTS since 997.2, the 911R and, yeah, all the GT cars. I'll wait.
Not buying the "marketing" reason.
I have had zero issues with mine and know no one else who has either. The only tricky thing is removing and installing a CL wheel and dinging the brake rotors. They sell an aftermarket hub extension tool that prevents that issue. Also one that allows the wheels to be loosened and tightened while on the ground. Google it.
I love mine and viva la difference.
Lastly, I don't fancy a single OEM 997 wheel that is not CL, save the Sport Classic/Speedster (not forged, heavy).
I did like the Carrera 18" 5-spoke wheels on my 997.1. Easy to clean and lots of space between the spokes.
Cheers!
P.S. Headed to LA in a week to drive up the PCH to Cambria, San Simeon and as far up as the slide closure allows- which was 30 miles north of Ragged Point back in October. With no through traffic and a minuscule number of locals, having that 60-mile RT portion virtually to oneself was a rare treat.
Did it last October and saw, like, 6 cars and no trucks in 60 miles. Sublime.
Looks like it is still closed. Yay.
https://www.bigsurcalifornia.org/hig...onditions.html
Happy motoring, indeed!
Enjoy your summer.
Last edited by Liste-Renn; 08-01-2024 at 08:14 PM.
08-02-2024, 12:40 AM
#2818
Rennlist Member
All this talk of CL rims for GTS cars and especially how the OEM Spyders leave fitment to be desired…
Shameless plug from a former 4GTS owner! Anyone tired of their OEM Spyder center locks, I have a set of Forgeline GA1R specifically for GTS/Turbo wide body fitment, custom spec’d by Sharkwerks! Reduced to $3,500 now.
https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1299664
https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1299664
08-02-2024, 09:29 AM
#2820
Hey guys, not really a car but these wheels are made for the 997 GTS. I know the owner and he had them on his 997 GTS before he traded it in for a GT3. I know he's willing to move on these since he had them for a while. Good guy and good wheels. Unfortunately these CL wheels are only good for owners of a 997 GTS or GT3RS so very limited pool of buyers.
https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1299664
https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1299664
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fayraree (08-02-2024)