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In a million years I was never going to buy a Tip car or a Cabro. Yet here I am with both. I am old and learned to drive on a stick. In the 80s and early 90s I was a Porsche Tech and laughed at the thought of a non-manual trans. I am surprised how much I enjoy it though. Anybody else change their minds? I don't track the car just drive it for fun and to work occasionally. My next will be a PDK so looking for opinions on that. I tracked a GT3 with PDK and loved it.
I also was a die-hard manual-transmission (MT) guy. My C2S w/PDK is the first non-stick sports car I've ever owned. If I was getting another Carrera, I certainly wouldn't turn down a MT. But if given a choice between MT and PDK, and all other things being equal... I think I'd pick the PDK.
As regards Tip vs. PDK...
Porsche has nearly always delivered a great product. And for its day, Tip was very good. However, technology does move on and by all accounts the 997 PDK is significantly better than the Tip. And the PDK in newer generation cars like the 991.x and 992 continues to further move the game on (you'd have experienced that when tracking the GT3 w/PDK).
But just because later technology improves performance does not take away from your experience with your car. It's not a zero-sum game. The fact that you (and many others) enjoy their Tip is proof of that.
When I got mine I had the choice between a manual S and a base Tip to replace my daily driver Boxster (manual). I optioned for the base tip because it was in better shape and my daily drive is stop and go in LA. Using Waze it goes up the hills in traffic a lot and it used to be torture to the manual clutch.
That being said: having been driving manuals for 30+ years I dearly miss the manual whenever I'm having fun with the car. The tip just doesn't see the road ahead and it is slow as hell if in manual mode. But I'm still having fun...
I have driven manual transmissions for over 60 years. But, modern automatics make them obsolete. It takes some time to change that "manual transmission only" mindset, but sooner or later you realize the car can do it better without your help. I just sold my manual BMW, which had the best manual transmission I have driven in a long time. I had reached a point where I just didn't feel like shifting any more. I think if I had an old street rod or 60s muscle car, I'd prefer a 4 speed. But, manual transmissions just seem out of place now.
Like others here, I'm an older guy with a long history of manual transmissions. My car before the 997 was a manual M3 that I drove for ten years. My first car was a manual 1960 VW Bug.
With the Tip I can launch faster, shift faster, and I'd be willing to bet my 0-60 times match those of a 5-speed. Tips don't have overrev issues. When canyon carving I put it in 3rd and mostly leave it there, same as I would in a manual. It's certainly much better in stop and go traffic. I dislike that it starts off in second and some of the shifts are lazy and occur at low RPMs unless shifting "manually." Sport Chrono is on the list for this December and should take care of that.
My track days are behind me and my wife can finally drive one of my cars (if she chooses to). My 911 has full leather, wood-trimmed interior, and a bangin' hifi with nav and Bluetooth (aftermarket). It's still well under 50k miles, spotless inside and out and I got it for MANY thousands below market.
Not me. I think PDK or auto is great for a sedan, track, or commuter car, but I use my 997 only for weekend fun and like the manual. I don’t care that I can’t shift as fast as the computer. I once got rid of my manual BMW for an auto Benz and ended up missing driving manual so much, I went back to a manual Porsche, but I guess I’m old school and find it hard to change that.
I also don’t care to update my radio unit to a fancy CarPlay one. I’m fine hearing the engine when I drive, and also like wearing watches with mechanical movements inside as opposed to an Apple Watch. Perhaps I’ll change one day, but for now, I have no desire to ever own a Porsche sports car that doesn’t have 3 pedals.
Last edited by Carreralicious; 10-23-2020 at 10:05 AM.
I had a 996 C4S cab tip for four years, and could never form a connection with it. The tip upshifted way too quick in auto, so I always used manual to hold the gears. The gearing also wasn't great, and the car didn't feel playful or quick at all, unless I was flooring it while merging onto the highway. The combo of the awd, cab, and tip was also way too much weight and the car just wasn't that much fun to drive unless it was the perfect weather, on the perfect road, with the top down. I switched to a base 997.2 manual coupe, and it's so much more fun to drive, even at normal speed limits. Obviously, I went from one extreme to the other in terms of weight, but the tip just was never that fun to me, sorry.
I have a TIP S in my Cayenne Turbo S. It's my least favorite part of the car. No chance I'd have that transmission in a sports car. It's behavior in automatic mode sucks, even in sport, and shifting it manually doesn't improve the shift speed much at all. Anyone who says their Tip can out accelerate and shift faster than a MT, doesn't know how to drive a MT. The only time the Tip is faster is in a turbo car where the engine can stay on boost during the gear change, whereas with a clutch yiu have to let off the gas, work the clutch, and recreate the boost.
If I dealt with traffic regularly (I don't), I'd consider a PDK in a 997, but never a Tip. If I could take a MT 6-speed out of a Cayenne GTS I might even consider a transmission swap in the Cayenne to have the only MT Turbo S, but since it's primarily our family vacation car and actually accelerates faster with the tip due to the boost thing I mentioned above, likely not worth the effort or expense.
Different strokes for different folks though. If the 997 is primarily a cruiser and not driven in a spirited manner frequently, then may not be as big a downer in that case. On the plus side, a TIP / cab is the least desirable 997 combination, so their prices are very affordable.
Not me. I think PDK or auto is great for a sedan, track, or commuter car, but I use my 997 only for weekend fun and like the manual. I don’t care that I can’t shift as fast as the computer. I once got rid of my manual BMW for an auto Benz and ended up missing driving manual so much, I went back to a manual Porsche, but I guess I’m old school and find it hard to change that.
I also don’t care to update my radio unit to a fancy CarPlay one. I’m fine hearing the engine when I drive, and also like wearing watches with mechanical movements inside as opposed to an Apple Watch. Perhaps I’ll change one day, but for now, I have no desire to ever own a Porsche sports car that doesn’t have 3 pedals.
I so agree with all your three points. Where you at in NJ?
I have a TIP S in my Cayenne Turbo S. It's my least favorite part of the car. No chance I'd have that transmission in a sports car. It's behavior in automatic mode sucks, even in sport, and shifting it manually doesn't improve the shift speed much at all. Anyone who says their Tip can out accelerate and shift faster than a MT, doesn't know how to drive a MT. The only time the Tip is faster is in a turbo car where the engine can stay on boost during the gear change, whereas with a clutch yiu have to let off the gas, work the clutch, and recreate the boost.
If I dealt with traffic regularly (I don't), I'd consider a PDK in a 997, but never a Tip. If I could take a MT 6-speed out of a Cayenne GTS I might even consider a transmission swap in the Cayenne to have the only MT Turbo S, but since it's primarily our family vacation car and actually accelerates faster with the tip due to the boost thing I mentioned above, likely not worth the effort or expense.
Different strokes for different folks though. If the 997 is primarily a cruiser and not driven in a spirited manner frequently, then may not be as big a downer in that case. On the plus side, a TIP / cab is the least desirable 997 combination, so their prices are very affordable.
Asking for love and just rain on their parade, but at least not trying to sell those old **** Champion wheels again. How long have those things been for sale? I know you tried to sell them to me 3 or so years ago.
Dudes and older dudes enjoying their 911s. Cool, but didn't seem like he was asking for advise or debate with those inflicted by manual pride.
Not me. I think PDK or auto is great for a sedan, track, or commuter car, but I use my 997 only for weekend fun and like the manual. I don’t care that I can’t shift as fast as the computer. I once got rid of my manual BMW for an auto Benz and ended up missing driving manual so much, I went back to a manual Porsche, but I guess I’m old school and find it hard to change that.
I also don’t care to update my radio unit to a fancy CarPlay one. I’m fine hearing the engine when I drive, and also like wearing watches with mechanical movements inside as opposed to an Apple Watch. Perhaps I’ll change one day, but for now, I have no desire to ever own a Porsche sports car that doesn’t have 3 pedals.
Dude, I am with you on Carplay. This is the stupidist, most annoying shyte ever that belongs in a Camaro or a BMW, not a real sports car. I also think Apple watches are off beat or strange, but my dang Submariner is horrible at keeping time.
In a million years I was never going to buy a Tip car or a Cabro. Yet here I am with both. I am old and learned to drive on a stick. In the 80s and early 90s I was a Porsche Tech and laughed at the thought of a non-manual trans. I am surprised how much I enjoy it though. Anybody else change their minds? I don't track the car just drive it for fun and to work occasionally. My next will be a PDK so looking for opinions on that. I tracked a GT3 with PDK and loved it.
I've had many convertibles, both manual and automatic. Overall, the best experience with the top down has been with an automatic especially when cruising in traffic. IMHO, the Tiptronic S are very good, reliable transmissions, but from a performance standpoint not as quick and responsive as the dual-clutch pdk models. Aside from the PDK vs. Tiptronic debate, having an automatic includes more people in my family that don't have a desire to learn manual. My daughters love the tiptronics Porsches. Must be a generational thing? lol
I just absolutely CANNOT stand the weirdass up-down shift selectors on both columns of the steering wheel of any automatic tiptronic and some pdk porsches. It drives me nuts!
-I never got used to it on the 997 C4S cab and eventually just never touched them, and only used the gear selector stick. Other than that the car drove fine, and launched pretty cleanly off the line.
Paddle shifter on pdk FTW, shift levers w dedicated downshift on left, upshift on right make sense and are are intuitive. That's the only way to go for a automated manual/automatic.
Note: If you are running a performance exhaust, Tiptronic, and PDK during normal driving tend to operate in the range where potential drone is most exacerbated.
Needless to say, I don't have those issues anymore as my current Porsche is a manual.
Last edited by Fresh.Sizzle; 02-11-2021 at 02:49 PM.
The Tiptronic S is a good transmission (made by Mercedes). It has several shifting maps which are chosen adaptively, i.e., the controller senses the driving style - throttle application profile and braking. Thus, it can be ver lazy or be responsive. Like anything the driver also needs to adapt to it, understand it to take full advantage. Off the street a stick-shift jockey not willing to learn will dismiss it as garbage or granny-tranny; that is not the case.
10-22-2020, 06:24 PM
Tiptronic love ?
