8KaboveMSL

I suspect from reading the comments that there may be some market-specific dynamics that come into play. I just moved back to Colorado after living in the bay area for the last 10 years and bought 3 cars and sold/traded in two. Two of the cars I bought were pcars and one of the trade I a was a pcar as well.

no experience with Carnax but quite a few dealings with many of the Porsche dealers in this market (we have 4 if you count the one in CO Springs).

The best trade in offer I had on my 2014 Cayenne was from a Jeep dealer and a smaller highline dealer. I got low balled by all three Porsche dealers and wound up trading it in with an out of town dealer that matched my high offer (high end of KBB range) because once I factored in the sales tax benefit I was within a grand of what I would net out on a PP sale.

The Porsche dealers are also asking quite a bit above market for their used cars. So much so that I saved $5k after shipping my 17 Cayenne eHybrid from NH to CO and a similar amount on my 06 C4S Cab from IL. I suspect that the dynamic is driven less by the Porsche dealers behaving badly and more because there is more demand (at least for those two cars) than there is supply. That at least explains the inflexibility on the asking prices. That being said the systematic low-balling is harder to explain. I would have traded my Cayenne in at a Carmax if they had what I was looking for (wish I had the knowledge I have now of their warranty a d shipping policies). I didn’t get a great offer from the local Carmax but I didn’t negotiate as they didn’t have a car locally that I wanted to purchase.

sandwedge

And no chance of Carmax arguing that whatever came up on the PPI during the 7 day grace period happened during that period and that they're therefore not under any obligation to take the car back or repair it? I don't know how their contract reads. Is the 7 day return/repair policy 100% unconditional? What if during that 7 day period a distinct ticking sound can all of a sudden be heard from the engine and a PPI discovers bore scoring? Bore scoring doesn't just happen in a week. If this was the case, the car sold already had early symptoms of bore scoring but not enough to be audible. Would Carmax just take the car back with a full refund or rebuild the engine with no discussion? Just one scenario.

I still don't understand why they just won't allow a PPI instead of all this BS with the grace period. Has to be a reason that they feel benefits them. Why not let the buyer have the car inspected before the contract is written? That way Carmax is off the hook if the buyer finds everything is in order and anything that goes wrong even one day after the sale is on him or her.

dgoldenz

They will take the car back within 7 days no questions asked. PPIs would be a huge pain in the *** for a volume no haggle dealer like carmax. They run a very efficient system. Other than sometimes being overpriced I don’t see what’s not to like. All of their cars include a 90 day warranty that would address your concerns and if that’s not good enough, buy the extended warranty which is the best in the business.

Doug H

My main point is there is no reason a good well sorted 997 (especially a 997.2) would end up at a Carmax lot and a decent one would NEVER end up at auction. Porsche dealerships will gladly take well sorted, premium 911s in on trade at top dollar as they are very liquid and GOOD inventory is difficult to come by, especially post Covid.

The cars you had may have had sorting or wear item issues if the dealership is not offering MMR and no one is really chomping at the bit to get a Panamera on their lot. Even if the trade offer was a bit lower, one should more than make up for it on sales tax in most states.

. . . .

RE: restock policy (I saw the below as I was trying to see if there was a mileage limit such as Auto Nation owned dealerships that has a 7 day return policy, but with a mileage limit that makes it impractical)

I did not add the bold to the below.

https://www.returnpolicyguide.com/carmax-return-policy/"CarMax will process your refund to the original modes of payment (credit, debit, check, etc.).

It may take up to 2 months for the credit to reflect in your account and CarMax will also reduce the amount of refund for restocking fees or shipping charges
Type of paymentYou will get the refund inRefund and Credit PolicyCredit card/Debit card used while purchasingNACarMax will issue a refund in the form of the original payment; if you use a credit card, you will get a refund in your credit card. Shipping and handling costs are not refundableCash or CheckNAYou will be refunded via cashPayPalNAPayPal account

Doug H

Lol about PPI being too difficult for them. They are just playing the odds that NO ONE will ever get an inspection after the sale.

I took my 2017 M3 to get a quote in early December 2019 and everyone was just sitting around. Carmax is no busier than most other car dealerships I have never had any dealership tell me no PPI anywhere in the country and I purchase perhaps 2 to 3 cars per year or more since at least the late 1990s.

RE: Dumping my 2017 M3 with Needs at CarMax.

I took my 2017 M3 to DUMP at CarMax in December 2019 because it was leased and needed $3,500 in repairs and wear items to turn back in to BMW Financial. CarMax offered MMR (like several other did) which would have saved me about $2,500 from lease turn in. I would have done it except I was still having to pay sales pay tax on the residual amount with them.

CarMax offered MMR on my M3 WITHOUT even driving it and without figuring out the $3,500 that would have had to be put into it by the new owner had I dumped it there. Cosmetically, the car looked good.

The 3 other MMR offers I got over the telephone were subject to visual inspection.

PV997

Yes, I think this is exactly it. They know people are busy, or even worse naive, and the overwhelming majority will not have the car inspected by a competent mechanic within the seven day window. At best the buyer's uncle or brother-in-law who "knows a lot about cars" may take it for a drive and pronounce an opinion. After that people are stuck with the car.

If you are sharp, understand how the Carmax policy works, have a good mechanic lined up, and apply the money/effort to get it quickly inspected, you can make it work for you. I'd be surprised if more than a one or two per-cent of Carmax buyers actually do this. Carmax is betting on good old human nature to be lazy and uninformed. Rennlist buyers wouldn't be like that I suspect, but we aren't the typical Carmax shopper.

PV997

I'd add that I bet many people buying tell themselves they will take it for an inspection within the 7 days but then blow it off. They are busy and the car seems ok so they never do it. Carmax is a huge outfit and I'm sure they have figured this all out. They likely engaged statisticians and behaviorists with predictions down to the second decimal place of what percentage will actually follow through. Like Doug says they are playing the odds.

A disciplined and knowledgeable buyer can make it work for them. Unfortunately most people aren't.

dgoldenz

The vast majority of car buyers and especially those shopping at Carmax don't even know what a PPI is, they just buy the car. When I sold my RAV4 for $9k I had 3 offers the first day I listed it, the first one showed up, drove the car for two minutes, and gave me cash. No PPI, no questions asked. Carmax doesn't care about Rennlisters that will nitpick everything on a 10 year old used car, that isn't their market. If a RL'er doesn't want the car, someone else will come along and buy it very quickly, just look how fast they sell 911's, especially the desirable builds/low miles ones.

dgoldenz

Allowing PPI's doesn't make sense for their business model. They aren't a BMW dealer, they aren't a Porsche dealer. They don't care if you don't buy their car, someone else will be lined up right behind you to do it. Allowing PPI's before purchase would add an unnecessary time/expense factor that doesn't benefit them in any way. Their offer to buy your car will be reduced if there are wear items that need to be fixed. If you bring in the car with bald tires and worn down brake pads, do you think they won't reduce the offer to account for those items? Will they catch everything that can possibly go wrong or need to be addressed on a BMW or Porsche? No, probably not, but they catch the obvious stuff and build it into their overall pricing model which accounts for claims that may be made under the limited or extended warranty.

I don't know why you seem perturbed by the way their business model works. They are clearly very successful with it and as someone who has bought from them before, I think it's great when you can find the right car. Like I said, sometimes they don't even know what they have because they aren't experts on the nuances of the Porsche used car market. I have seen many cars come through there that are underpriced compared to actual market value because their pricing doesn't really account for desirable options/high MSRP builds. Just yesterday I posted a 991 GTS with 5k miles that had aerokit and Carmax had it listed for $90k while a Porsche dealer would probably CPO that car for $100-105k. It was reserved quickly after I posted it in the HFS thread, probably by someone on RL.

Balr14

My experience with local Porsche dealers is they really don't want your used 911. 95% of their business is SUVs. Basically, all dealers use the same vehicle evaluation software products. What you will get comes down to how long will they need to keep it in order to sell it at a decent profit. I'm sure there are many markets where Porsches and other high-end sports cars are in demand and turn over quickly. But, around here they make up a very small percentage of the market and don't sell worth a damn. So, lots of "good" cars end up with CarMax, Vroom or at auction.

A PPI introduces variables that CarMax has no process or procedure to deal with. I don't know if you have noticed, but nobody makes decisions any more. Everything is process and procedure. That can often make no sense or be very frustrating. But, that is always the case these days with any major company or organization.

PV997

Agree with everything you said except the use of the word nitpick. Being an informed buyer isn't nitpicking, this isn't a ten year old Chevy Malibu we are talking about. Also, I think you just made Doug's point that Carmax's model is to turn over inventory as quickly as possible with minimal inspections/questions. Not saying there's anything wrong with that as a business model, just that it may not be the best way to buy a sorted 911.

dgoldenz

We will just have to agree to disagree. Read my post earlier in this thread, I bought a car from Carmax that they had underpriced by over $20k and flipped it, the car was in absolute mint condition and looked like it had never been driven. My experience with Porsche dealers is that they do not offer better trade than anyone else. I have tried several times to get trade offers and each time they were lower than Carmax/Carvana/Autonation. You would THINK Porsche dealers would want mint cars to CPO and flip, but it doesn't seem that way in practice. All of the cars I have attempted to trade were in excellent shape with all services up to date and no repairs necessary.

I don't know why you're quoting a third-party website for Carmax's return policy. Just call them yourself and ask. It does not take two months to get your money refunded and there is no restocking fee. They don't allow you to put the entire car payment on a credit card either.

dgoldenz

With all due respect, RL'ers are generally very nitpicky. There is nothing wrong with that as it's our money, but we are not the target market for Carmax. If you simply buy the car you want, use the 7-day period to do your own PPI, and get the 5-year extended warranty, there is really nothing you would need to worry about. If wear items are found needing replacement within the 7 days, they will either fix it or take the car back.

PV997

Are you in the business?

Doug H

Lol, I am not perturbed with their business model. I am just saying I would never purchase a 997 or any high sports car from them for the reasons stated above. Good 911s are very liquid and will not likely end up there unless there is a problem.

I am not talking about Rav4s. Carmax may be great for those.

You, yourself can shop at Carmax for quality 911s and high end sports cars like Ferraris, Lamobos, R8s and etc, if you like. I am going to either a Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo/High end dealer or specialty shop like Velocity to get my high end sports cars or purchase from private owners subject to PPIs.

https://www.velocitymc.com/

I will gladly pay a little more for high end, quality cars that are well sorted. Those cheap/Carmax type cars generally end up costing way more in the long run than the more expensive, well sorted cars at high end lots.
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