barfoo

Fair point Sporty. I'm going to visit a local dealer today that has a variety of 911's in stock.

But, in a short test drive, especially if I test several of them back to back, I might miss something as I expect all of them to be a blast to drive :-). So that's why I'm asking rennlisters for stuff I should be paying attention to during the test drives. Like if there is something odd with respect to how the new 7 speed MT handles shifting between certain gears.

Vethen

The 9A1 Motor does not contain the subsystem that uses an IMS bearing. It is a new design.

Bore scoring has happened in atleast one 9A1. The rate appears to be basically non-existent, but it’s not out of the question.

Base 991.1s have depreciated a good bit, you could pick up a 997.2 or a 991.1 for the same ballpark figure. I’ve driven a 7spd 991.1 and didn’t find the shifter to be an issue, it was a first for seven forward gears but nothing noteworthy in the negative direction for me. 911’s are fast, even base cars.

The 991.2 would start as a 2017 MY

Balr14

1. The 9A1 does not have IMS.

2. There has been some bore scoring with the 9A1 engine. Since Porsches are mostly garage queens, there isn't a significant number of high mileage examples to determine if bore scoring will become a significant issue. If you read some of the threads about it in this forum, there are design or cost decisions that would make it seem possible.

3. Maybe High Pressure fuel pump, in some years.

4-1. The 997.2 and 991.1 have the same 9A1 engine. The 991 weighs 150 lbs less and they tweaked the horsepower of the S model up by 20hp. Other changes are largely aesthetic. The base 991 displacement was reduced to 3.4 liter. I did not care for the performance of either 997.2 or 991.1 base models, though I'm sure some will disagree.

4-2. The 7 speed manual is basically a PDK with a hydraulic clutch added and some valve body changes. Many of the PDK functions and issues exist in the manual. I have driven a couple manuals and did not find them noteworthy, either good or bad. I prefer the manual in my 335i.

5. 2016.

barfoo

Thanks Venthen and Balr14. Appreciate the info. I was starting to research the answers to my own questions, but you beat me to it :-). Thanks.

So if the 7 speed manual is simply the pdk with a manual clutch, is that a bad thing? Or should I simply go for a pdk instead. Better performance in the pdk (slightly) and the automated pdk clutch pretty much eliminates clutch wear and tear (better reliability longer term) from what I can gather by reading on the web.

barfoo

In terms of comparing S & 4S 997.2's vs 991.1 base Carrera:

997.2 Carrera S:
MSRP --> $90,500
Horsepower, engine --> 380 bhp at 6,500 rpm, 3.8 L Flat-6 with integrated dry sump
Torque: 310 lb⋅ft at ?? rpm
0-60 mph --> 4.7 seconds (not sure if this time is MT or PDK)
Top speed --> 188 mph

991.1 Carrera:
MSRP --> ?
Horsepower, engine --> 345 hp at 7,400 rpm, 3.4L Flat-6
Torque: 288 lb⋅ft at 5,600 rpm
0-60 mph --> 4.8 seconds (manual), 4.4 seconds with pdk and sport chrono
Top speed --> ~180 mph

991.1 Carrera S:
MSRP --> ?
Horsepower, engine --> 495hp at 7,400 rpm, 3.8L Flat-6
Torque: 325 lb⋅ft at 5,600 rpm
0-60 mph --> 4.5 seconds (manual), 4.1 seconds with pdk and sport chrono
Top speed --> ~189 mph

On paper anyway, it looks like the 991.1 Base Carrera has the same or better performance vs the 997.2 S. If I can get a 991.1 Carrera for the same or a few thousand more than a 997.2 S, should I? Or should I not? :-)

Balr14

People buy manual transmissions based on esoteric values, like feel and engagement. All measurable criteria favors the PDK. That's really true with any brand, though.

Your performance stats are off. They appear to be stats Porsche provides and online magazines publish without actually driving the cars. I suggest you look here: https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicl...-60-mph-times/

TheTorch

You left out nostalgia. Speaking for myself.

barfoo

As I mentioned very early on, my initial preference is to look for a non-standard, bolder paint color. Will these become more or less desirable over time?

So, what about Miami Blue? I kind of like this color.



Or Sapphire Blue Metallic?

Doug H

There are inherent issues in the design and construction of the 997.1 motor not present in the 997.2 that has made the 997.1 more prone to scoring at this time and these have been addressed in detail and ad nauseum by Baz, Raby and etc., but especially by Baz. That does not mean it cannot happen in the 997.2 or 991 motors or any motor for that matter and there will be examples in all motors, but the 997.1 has shown a particular susceptibility.

Balr14 mentions all 911s being garage queens so not having had chance to see this yet. That is incorrect on many different levels and low mileage garage queens are scoring just like higher mileage cars. Some of this could be due to the fact that people can drive around on scored engines perhaps for a couple of years without even knowing it before it really becomes problem.

Really, there is so much misinformation floating around in this and the other thread (and I may also have some details wrong) that one should search for the last 2 or 3 scoring threads, one of which may have been started by Raby, where Baz goes into crazy detail about the issue, the cause and possible solutions.

I would serious look to Baz as the expert on this subject matter (Jakes is less open and prone to sharing useful information) and review the paper he wrote attached to some of his posts and his posts on this subject if you are truly considering purchasing a 997.1.

Doug H

Don't go by Porsche claimed factory specs. Those are usually not even in the ballpark (real world are much less).

The 991.1 is a vastly superior chassis and platform in performance driving and the lap times on a track with the same or similar horsepower engine are starkly lower in the 991.1 as its performance limits and handling are much better than the 997.2 chassis.

That said, I was never a huge fan of the 991 for a litany of other reasons (owned 2), the 997.2 has plenty of performance for public streets and doubtfully you will be able to drive either at 8/10 or 9/10s consistently, but the 991 is a much more balanced and easier to drive at the limits chassis.

barfoo

Thanks Doug H. FYI, I got those performance numbers from wikipedia (who's reference was probably Porsche). Yeah, I'm aware that Porsche's published numbers are conservative in general. I figured that if the numbers came from the same source, they would provide at least a modicum of comparability, even if they are conservative.

So the 991 chassis is that much better? Interesting.

I found a 2017 manual 991.2 Carrera with the following options that looks pretty compelling to me:

BASE 911 Carrera
176 Sport Exhaust System
460 20" RS Spyder Design Wheels 4
97 Control Code for Model Designation
529 SportDesign exterior mirrors
581 Luggage net in passenger footwell
583 Smoking package
651 Electric slide/tilt sunroof
858 GT Sport Steering Wheel
9VL BOSE® Surround Sound System
AG Standard Interior in Black
CWL PORSCHE Logo Painted
J5 Miami Blue
QR5 Sport Chrono Package
XSC Porsche Crest on headrests

Do you see anything missing that would be critical or a deal breaker?

barfoo

Missing items from the 2017 997.2:
PASM (is this really an issue?)
Navigation (not critical, I normally use google maps anyway). Can you add Porsche Navigation as an aftermarket add-on? Or does it have to be factory installed?
Seats: I don't see the multi-way electrically adjustable seat option. What is the standard seat on a base Carrera and is it comfortable?
Porsche Dynamic Lighting System (what is this option, anyway?)
Premium package plus (includes the dynamic lighting system among other upgrades)

Balr14

A 991.2 C2S is one of the cars on top of my shopping list. If I can find one that fits my budget, I can live without the options.

L8 APXR

I have a different perspective. I consider Porsche ownership a journey and not a destination.

I am on my third 911 - had a 996 40th AE, then a 997.1S MT, and now driving a 997.2S PDK. Each car had/has unique characteristics with advantages and disadvantages however had zero regrets about owning and driving any of them. All were a blast to drive on the edge (quite a few DE events) as well as touring with our club around Texas. While the buying and selling process can be cumbersome, I am enjoying each new experience as well as learning more about the cars, Porsche history, and connections with other Pcar enthusiasts.

I have only had the current 911 for a few months however I am already making mental notes about which 911 to consider next as well as what options (factory and aftermarket) I like and dislike. At this time I don't see having that forever car as I want to own and drive as many flavors as possible.

I don't think you will disappointed in any of the cars in your search parameters. Buy one, drive it a while, and if you decide you want to try something different, resale is pretty good on these cars so not too painful to move to another car.

Doug H

A 991.2 S is quicker around Laguna Seca than a 997.2 GT3 RS.

The 991 chassis is that good and I put hp out by the different cars/times to show how the 991 street chassis performs against the 997 GT3/GT2 suspensions with more hp.

Laguna Seca Lap Times:

992 S - 135.52 (450 hp)
997.2 GT2 RS - 135.56 (612 hp)
991.2 S - 136.44 (414 hp)
997.2 GT3 RS - 136.77 (450 hp)
991.1 4S - 139.00 (400 hp)
991.1 S - 139.30 (400 hp)
997.1 GT3 - 139.52 (415 hp)
997.2 Base - 145.00 (345 hp)

https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988