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As for the Carrera T. I was excited to get to drive it but after an extended test drive I found the car to be very numb as far as the feedback to the driver. I had driven to the dealership in my GTS so this was a back to back drive. The noise, engine response, steering feel.. it was all about like there was a 911 somewhere under there but all the good bits were wrapped in several layers of bubble wrap, so the feeling of it was masked. If a more raw feeling from the newer generation is what they were after there were a lot of layers that still needed peeled back if you planned to get some sense of what the car was up to. I dont doubt a Carrera T could be good, but some attention to bringing the feeling of a 911 back to it would be some work, not an out of the box solution, for me, to a 997 replacement.
As it is I've done some work to the 997.2 to get it to the level of feedback and feel I want from a 911. Going to a T would mean even deeper levels of peeling back isolation that's been added for the mass market.
However, thankfully there are so many combinations that are available from Porsche to solve the sports car conundrum.
Yes there’s nearly a decade of tire development between those tests and that is very important to note.
But as a package, that Carrera T is seriously quick no mater how you look at it. Of note, they were also complementary of the T’s brakes stopping power and durability.
Karl.
Outside the numbers comparing a 997 GTS to any 991 to me comes down to the size of the car. A 991 will be miles ahead in comfort but feel larger and I don't know if you commute or not or if it's a blasting up he canyon car. I traded in my 997.1 C4S manual for a 991 GTS PDK and missed the shifting and the feeling of being in a go kart. Hence got a 997 GTS. Being fair though I just did a blast in my 991 and it was a hoot. And the PDK is mondo-fun.
When you have money burning a hole in your pocket patience (and prudence) sometimes go to the wayside. Sometimes cars come up where the previous owner spent a lot of jack doing really nice things, and that's what I look for. Like the Rennlister selling his GT3 clone in the marketplace. But it takes SO MUCH research time. I shudder to say at least a handful of people are going to have to shed their cars in 90 days. I don't like it, but it's reality.
Like Fined, I also like the GTS. I had a 991.2 Turbo until Octiber 2019 and then purchased this 2012 GTS.
The GTS has more than enough performance for public roads and is a joy to drive.
I will go back to Turbo soon as I am getting a 992 Turbo, but mainly because I want a new car as my daily driver and I really like the looks of it.
Performance wise for around town driving, the GTS has plenty and practically no one driving a GTS can or will be driving it anywhere nears its limits anyway.
I posted about this stuff in the 991 thread; I have had the opportunity to own everything on your list (991.2 C2S, not T, with all performance options). They are all good, but very different.
The 991.2 w/RWS was special: it adds a measure of handling and sportiness that non-RWS steer cars don't have. I wouldn't shy away from looking for a C2S; they are about the same price as a T, but with more power and otherwise the same as a loaded T. You can't get buckets, but if you want buckets, just buy a GT4. Buckets in the 991.2 eliminate the rear seat anyways. The GT4 more analog and raw and has a feeling closer to your 997; in stock form, it is about as good as you can get for a firm daily driver, and better than a 991 GT3 (daily driver use: more engaging with the engine better suited to road use). I drove a 991.2 C2S without RWS and it wasn't quite the same. Tons of power. I prefer the NA engine overall: it builds power and has a more visceral feel. Sure, it isn't as quick, but it is plenty quick. That is probably why I like the GT4 so much. Our favorite all-around car is now our Mexico Blue 991.1 C2S cab. It just does everything well and looks stunning. It is a loaded build with Burmester, full leather, and everything else, and is definitely a sporty luxury car; perfect road trip car to wine country where you can have fun on back roads but not get beat up over time.
The 991.2 engines are FAST. Maybe too fast. Our 3.4L Cayman with tune "feels" much faster, as it isn't as isolated, has buckets and suspension upgrades, and just feels like you are going 80mph when you are going 80mph. Dropping it into 2nd at 30mph and wringing it out is thrilling. The 991.2 feels like you are going 40mph when you are doing 80.
My 997 C2S was a really good car; very analogue and lively. I would get one again today. If you can get another 997 GTS, why not go that route? The 997 has a great coupe silhouette. The 997 cab isn't as pretty, IMO. This is a great time to be a buyer of a car.
I still think the pinnacle of the 991 Carrera lineup, for me, is a 991 GTS with sport PASM. Carmine Red would be my preference. It just ticks all of the boxes.
If you look at values, both the 991.1 and 997.2 are holding their values much better than the 991.2 (base, T, C2S, GTS). All of these have continued to depreciate rather steeply. If value is your goal, the NA lineup probably promises to hold value better long term.
Outside the numbers comparing a 997 GTS to any 991 to me comes down to the size of the car. A 991 will be miles ahead in comfort but feel larger and I don't know if you commute or not or if it's a blasting up he canyon car. I traded in my 997.1 C4S manual for a 991 GTS PDK and missed the shifting and the feeling of being in a go kart. Hence got a 997 GTS. Being fair though I just did a blast in my 991 and it was a hoot. And the PDK is mondo-fun.
When you have money burning a hole in your pocket patience (and prudence) sometimes go to the wayside. Sometimes cars come up where the previous owner spent a lot of jack doing really nice things, and that's what I look for. Like the Rennlister selling his GT3 clone in the marketplace. But it takes SO MUCH research time. I shudder to say at least a handful of people are going to have to shed their cars in 90 days. I don't like it, but it's reality.
EDIT: Do you want a cab or coupe?
I hear you. We got our 2014 Cayman S from someone who put $30k into it building out a pretty hardcore track machine, then decided to move onto another project. It is the most go-kart like experience I have had in a Porsche, and the most fun P-car just to drive around. I look for every optional u-turn and roundabout I can find! It is probably a lot like the upcoming GT4 RS in terms of suspension and whatnot, obviously with a much smaller engine. It isn't like the 370+HP it is making isn't enough for this little car
Have you driven a GT3 or does it need to be a cab or have back seats? I ask because the red one wasn't a cab, but the rest seem to be?
Im open to a coupe but would like a sunroof at a minimum. It will be a second driver so good weather only and mostly in the north Georgia mountains and 2-3 days to work each month.
That's a nice one. Here's another but man the red interior is very rd against a white care. And the price on this one is high due to 14k miles and being located in San Francisco, home of the dotcom throw money around crwd
everyone can ignore my asymmetrical answer but my cousin's 718 GTS is the exact same size as my 997, has more HP/TQ, and is mid engine. I am just saying...now with a 4.0 if you want it!!
I am a big fan of the 4cyl. ones that are all about to go on heavy sale IMO. I might pick one up and mod it into a monster. There is A LOT left on the table in those little 914 successors.
I don't understand where the love is for them but I am coming from having a B13 SE-R, to a string of modded Civics, to having a couple EVOs. My C2S is my first German performance car.
what's not to like?? ...especially when the prices just DROP.
everyone can ignore my asymmetrical answer but my cousin's 718 GTS is the exact same size as my 997, has more HP/TQ, and is mid engine. I am just saying...now with a 4.0 if you want it!!
I am a big fan of the 4cyl. ones that are all about to go on heavy sale IMO. I might pick one up and mod it into a monster. There is A LOT left on the table in those little 914 successors.
I don't understand where the love is for them but I am coming from having a B13 SE-R, to a string of modded Civics, to having a couple EVOs. My C2S is my first German performance car.
what's not to like?? ...especially when the prices just DROP.
I've had some great cars with 4cyl engines (Hondas mainly). I can't deal with the sound of the 718's however. They sound like lawnmowers to me. Hate 'em.
^^^ this is another reason I am interested in getting one. I would love to place a bet I can make one sound super nasty and still pass smog in CA. ...it would at least be fun to try!!
I had 2 EVOs that I got with stock exhausts, 3" DP, 3" HFC (one catless b/c E85), 3" CBE + some intake and IC piping, add bigger turbos, and some more aggressive diverter valves...with cams...and a tune, they sounded really amazing.
Has anyone done unequal length headers on a 4cyl. version? Is that blasphemy? I don't want to get off topic...sorry. I really do think I am going to get one of these to mess with if they drop in price!!
ISo, have I spoiled myself buying the GTS first? Am I forced to go with another 997.2 GTS or will a 991.1 S be more similar? 408hp compared to 400hp on the 991 seems to get it much closer....trying to find one locally, but no luck so far.
Thoughts?
I think the 8 hp difference between a 997.2. GTS and a 991.1S is negligible. I've driven both and couldn't tell the difference in power. In fact, I came from an -09 997 C4S to my current GTS and even the 23 hp difference between those two is not exactly big drama. I can feel it if I try but to me there are other differences between those cars that are more noticeable, never mind the difference between the overall feel between a 997.2 GTS and a 991.1S.
To me the 997 is a better looking car both exterior and interior wise. I don't think the 991 interior is bad looking. It just feels much more plush, elegant and less sports car like than the 997. I probably couldn't tell the difference between the 991 center console and the Panamera center console if you showed me pictures of both next to each other.
GTS's are pretty rare to begin with and with your must have specs your search could be a long one. Have you driven a 997.2 C4S? Same body as the GTS except for the front bumper, the side skirts and a few other minor things. Very different feedback from the steering wheel because of the AWD but other than that, not dramatically different cars imo. Same for the 997.2 C2S except you lose the widebody. Would give you so many more options to choose from with the specs you want. Alcantera delete for example wouldn't be a consideration since neither of the two came with it unless optioned. But then, who am I to steer someone from a GTS to a C4S or C2S. The GTS is a special package and stepping down would be hard.
There's more to the 997/991 discussion than power. The 991 is a physically larger platform, more refined, quieter, and more isolated. I went from a 996.2 C2S to a 991.1 C2S and now have a 997.2 GTS. The 997.2 is the sweet spot in the middle. It depends upon what you're looking for in the car.
The Powerkit power isn't just up high. It has a nice bump in power and torque between 3000 and 4200 RPM.
I think the 8 hp difference between a 997.2. GTS and a 991.1S is negligible. I've driven both and couldn't tell the difference in power. In fact, I came from an -09 997 C4S to my current GTS and even the 23 hp difference between those two is not exactly big drama. I can feel it if I try but to me there are other differences between those cars that are more noticeable, never mind the difference between the overall feel between a 997.2 GTS and a 991.1S.
To me the 997 is a better looking car both exterior and interior wise. I don't think the 991 interior is bad looking. It just feels much more plush, elegant and less sports car like than the 997. I probably couldn't tell the difference between the 991 center console and the Panamera center console if you showed me pictures of both next to each other.
GTS's are pretty rare to begin with and with your must have specs your search could be a long one. Have you driven a 997.2 C4S? Same body as the GTS except for the front bumper, the side skirts and a few other minor things. Very different feedback from the steering wheel because of the AWD but other than that, not dramatically different cars imo. Same for the 997.2 C2S except you lose the widebody. Would give you so many more options to choose from with the specs you want. Alcantera delete for example wouldn't be a consideration since neither of the two came with it unless optioned. But then, who am I to steer someone from a GTS to a C4S or C2S. The GTS is a special package and stepping down would be hard.
Bullseye. I have a 970.2 Panamera. Climbed into a 991.1 (same model year) for a test drive. The interior layout was identical. I couldn't tell the difference either. My 997.2 C4S is a totally different animal.
04-19-2020 | 11:48 AM
