997.2 Bore Scoring - dodged a bullet
02-05-2020, 04:42 PM
#46
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Please correct me if I’m wrong on this but unlike IMS failure where the motor literally grenades bore score typically does not result in instantaneous catastrophic failure. Because of this the number of cases is obscure for both 997 versions. It would appear due to the changes in the .2 it is less prone. To what degree nobody real knows and the statistics are highly subjective and not a controlled set of data from multiple sources.
The .2 has some difference that makes it less prone to scoring. You can search for this as Baz has gone into the differences in detail. I would think the failure rates we have seen with the 997.2s are overall very low and perhaps even lower than the engine failure rate of many of the other high performance car companies. Engine failures do happen with all high end sports cars through a variety of mechanisms.
Lol, then we get these videos saying 997.1 engine is trash, car is good, get car engine it deserves . . . the ____ 4.0. I am sure the 4.0 is better than the 3.8, but starting to wonder if these 3.8 engines are really that bad or in that bad of shape.
02-05-2020, 04:54 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
I will try and answer. Correct, IMS is one minute perfect, next minute done. No warning. Scoring . . . seems like people could be driving around for years and have no clue. Seems like I have read a few examples where the engine was running bad and oil consumption was over the top, but seems like even though with what is classified as severe scoring have cars that seem to run perfectly.
The .2 has some difference that makes it less prone to scoring. You can search for this as Baz has gone into the differences in detail. I would think the failure rates we have seen with the 997.2s are overall very low and perhaps even lower than many of the other performance car companies there. Engine failures do happen with all high end sports cars through a variety of mechanisms.
The .2 has some difference that makes it less prone to scoring. You can search for this as Baz has gone into the differences in detail. I would think the failure rates we have seen with the 997.2s are overall very low and perhaps even lower than many of the other performance car companies there. Engine failures do happen with all high end sports cars through a variety of mechanisms.
And in some cases the consequences are far worse...
02-05-2020, 05:00 PM
#48
So once again the board is all riled up by someone who drops a turd and disappears. The OP has only two posts and joined Rennlist two days ago. All we have are two blurry photos that may or may not be scoring, it's impossible to tell if there is any depth to the scratches. It's like Pavlov's dogs, some yahoo rings a bell and we all start salivating. And as usual, no useful info was provided (such as the VIN so it can be avoided) but just another scare story. Enough is enough.
02-05-2020, 05:01 PM
#49
Personally, I think there are a lot of both .1 and .2 cars running around with scuffed/scored bores without anyone being aware of it. I recently discovered my RUF R-Kompressor has very light scuffing/scoring in #6 -
The car was washed and put under a cover in the garage on the normal Battery Tender with fuel stabilizer, where it's been since October.
The car was washed and put under a cover in the garage on the normal Battery Tender with fuel stabilizer, where it's been since October.
Damn....ugh! So sorry to hear this Petza. So frustrating! It is interesting and fortunate in a way that you caught it early and that Jake and Charles said that with proper oil and maintenance you can probably get many more years/miles out of the engine. Reminds me of another member here that drove 25,000 miles more after discovering he had scored bores as well before doing an engine rebuild. I think we are all just realizing that for many this may end up being a part of the 997 "Porsche ownership experience". Similar to many older 911s (Air-cooled) ownership. At some point, if you want to hold on to these cars long term, like many of us have, then an engine rebuild is probably in the forecast at some point in the future. If long term ownership is the case, then there is no rush either to run out and rebuild an engine that is still running strong even though you have scuffed cylinders. I know you send in your oil to blackstone every oil change. Did you have any silicon or other metals rising in your oil analysis?? A year or two ago, t was getting slammed by people like Petza and qikqbn for saying exactly what Petza just posted . . . that many are driving around with scored 997.1 engines without a clue and the problem is way more prevalent than people realize.
I am truly sorry to hear that Petza's beautiful car is showing signs of scoring or anyone has to go through this.
I am truly sorry to hear that Petza's beautiful car is showing signs of scoring or anyone has to go through this.
Doug H.... It's all in the delivery sometimes.
I admit I got heated a few times defending the 997.1's because I felt for awhile that it was an "US (996/997.1)" versus "Them (997.2 and any other 911)" and that was a very frustrating time to be on the threads because I just enjoy the hell out of my cars and I have had nothing but a positive experience with 4 different M96/M97 engines. Having to defend against the constant pessimism and stigma caused by a small percentage of cars was so draining and disappointing. I think many of us by now have been car enthusiasts long enough to know that no car lasts forever.In a unfortunate and strange way I feel that since BRONZ's gut wrenching series of events with his 997.2 engine failure/scoring thread and also more pdk failure threads popping up, that in some small ways the tone on the forum is beginning to change a little bit and we are all beginning to realize that we are driving around in 8-15 year old cars and there are no guarantees in life. There are just too many variables. I understand that there will always be some banter and competition between all 911 generations and that is just a part of being a car enthusiast. Yet, as I said earlier, I think for some of us the tone has changed and I consider many of us in the 997 trenches together now. We come here to share stories, problems, and solutions so that we can help each other out when the crap inevitably hits the fan and hopefully we can help each other get back to driving.
Last edited by qikqbn; 02-05-2020 at 10:31 PM.
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Doug H (02-05-2020)
02-05-2020, 05:45 PM
#50
Instructor
Damn....ugh! So sorry to hear this Petza. So frustrating! It is interesting and fortunate in a way that you caught it early and that Jake and Charles said that with proper oil and maintenance you can probably get many more years/miles out of the engine. Reminds me of another member here that drove 25,000 miles more after discovering he had scored bores as well before doing an engine rebuild. I think we are all just realizing that for many this may end up being a part of the 997 "Porsche ownership experience". Similar to many older 911s (Air-cooled) ownership. At some point, if you want to hold on to these cars long term, like many of us have, then an engine rebuild is probably in the forecast at some point in the future. If long term ownership is the case, then there is no rush either to run out and rebuild an engine that is still running strong even though you have scuffed cylinders. I know you send in your oil to blackstone every oil change. Did you have any silicon or other metals rising in your oil analysis??Doug H.... It's all in the delivery sometimes.
I admit I got heated a few times defending the 997.1's because I felt for awhile that it was an "US (996/997.1)" versus "Them (997.2 and any other 911)" and that was a very frustrating time to be on the threads because I just enjoy the hell out of my cars and I have had nothing but a positive experience with 4 different M96/M97 engines. Having to defend against the constant pessimism and stigma caused by a small percentage of cars was so draining and disapponting. I think many of us by now have been car enthusiasts long enough to know that no car lasts forever.In a unfortunate and strange way I feel that since BRONZ's gut wrenching series of events with his 997.2 engine failure/scoring thread and also more pdk failure threads popping up, that in some small ways the tone on the forum is beginning to change a little bit and we are all beginning to realize that we are driving around in 8-15 year old cars and there are no guarantees in life. There are just too many variables. I understand that there will always be some banter and competition between all 911 generations and that is just a part of being a car enthusiast. Yet, as I said earlier, I think for some of us the tone has changed and I consider many of us in the 997 trenches together now. We come here to share stories, problems, and solutions so that we can help each other out when the crap inevitably hits the fan and hopefully we can help each other get back to driving.
Oh, and my last Porsche was a '73 with a motor from a '75. If you know the mid-year 911 story, you won't be surprised to learn that motor blew up on me...
02-05-2020, 06:33 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
Damn....ugh! So sorry to hear this Petza. So frustrating! It is interesting and fortunate in a way that you caught it early and that Jake and Charles said that with proper oil and maintenance you can probably get many more years/miles out of the engine. Reminds me of another member here that drove 25,000 miles more after discovering he had scored bores as well before doing an engine rebuild. I think we are all just realizing that for many this may end up being a part of the 997 "Porsche ownership experience". Similar to many older 911s (Air-cooled) ownership. At some point, if you want to hold on to these cars long term, like many of us have, then an engine rebuild is probably in the forecast at some point in the future. If long term ownership is the case, then there is no rush either to run out and rebuild an engine that is still running strong even though you have scuffed cylinders. I know you send in your oil to blackstone every oil change. Did you have any silicon or other metals rising in your oil analysis??Doug H.... It's all in the delivery sometimes.
I admit I got heated a few times defending the 997.1's because I felt for awhile that it was an "US (996/997.1)" versus "Them (997.2 and any other 911)" and that was a very frustrating time to be on the threads because I just enjoy the hell out of my cars and I have had nothing but a positive experience with 4 different M96/M97 engines. Having to defend against the constant pessimism and stigma caused by a small percentage of cars was so draining and disapponting. I think many of us by now have been car enthusiasts long enough to know that no car lasts forever.In a unfortunate and strange way I feel that since BRONZ's gut wrenching series of events with his 997.2 engine failure/scoring thread and also more pdk failure threads popping up, that in some small ways the tone on the forum is beginning to change a little bit and we are all beginning to realize that we are driving around in 8-15 year old cars and there are no guarantees in life. There are just too many variables. I understand that there will always be some banter and competition between all 911 generations and that is just a part of being a car enthusiast. Yet, as I said earlier, I think for some of us the tone has changed and I consider many of us in the 997 trenches together now. We come here to share stories, problems, and solutions so that we can help each other out when the crap inevitably hits the fan and hopefully we can help each other get back to driving.
In the end, we all drive what was once only a dream, and we're all scared that that dream might turn into a nightmare and that we made the wrong choice. We cherished that dream for too long for this to happen.
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yvesvidal (02-06-2020)
02-06-2020, 04:41 AM
#52
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1138...e-scoring.html
Similar to 997.2,.. Bore Score in 991.1 (Both 9A1)
Unfortunately also the 997.2 that I thought was switching my car to 997.2 is not "bulletproof"
Similar to 997.2,.. Bore Score in 991.1 (Both 9A1)
Unfortunately also the 997.2 that I thought was switching my car to 997.2 is not "bulletproof"
02-06-2020, 05:44 AM
#53
https://flatsixes.com/cars/porsche-9...gines-special/
By the way, is it true to say that 991.2 finally solved the bore score problem?
"the cylinder bores now feature a new" Rotating Single-Wire "(RSW) iron coated lining"
By the way, is it true to say that 991.2 finally solved the bore score problem?
"the cylinder bores now feature a new" Rotating Single-Wire "(RSW) iron coated lining"
02-06-2020, 09:55 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
https://flatsixes.com/cars/porsche-9...gines-special/
By the way, is it true to say that 991.2 finally solved the bore score problem?
"the cylinder bores now feature a new" Rotating Single-Wire "(RSW) iron coated lining"
By the way, is it true to say that 991.2 finally solved the bore score problem?
"the cylinder bores now feature a new" Rotating Single-Wire "(RSW) iron coated lining"
02-06-2020, 10:12 AM
#56
All mechanical things break/wear out, 997.1, 997.2, 991, it doesn’t matter there are components on each that can break and cost $$$$ to fix. I am not sure why these threads always get such a reaction and it is frustrating how they always end up an egotistical thing of my “997.2 is better than your 997.1”.
Oh wait it is a forum of Porsche owners....😁
Oh wait it is a forum of Porsche owners....😁
02-06-2020, 11:33 AM
#57
Three Wheelin'
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1138...e-scoring.html
Similar to 997.2,.. Bore Score in 991.1 (Both 9A1)
Unfortunately also the 997.2 that I thought was switching my car to 997.2 is not "bulletproof"
Similar to 997.2,.. Bore Score in 991.1 (Both 9A1)
Unfortunately also the 997.2 that I thought was switching my car to 997.2 is not "bulletproof"
The only straight-forward info on the 997.2/9A1 engine is coming from Baz Hart. Baz stated unambiguously that he has seen only five cases total of 997.2 bore scoring and none in the last year. All five we driven hard at start in cold weather. Baz is a virtual clearinghouse on this issue in the UK and the only person putting out facts and figures (as opposed to nebulous references to 9A1 "failures"). In the mean time we continue to hear claims of this tsunami of 997.2 bore scoring coming that is always just around the corner. This despite the fact these engine have been in service for eleven years.
Some people just enjoy worrying it seems. I don't get it as it accomplishes nothing and takes a terrible toll, but there's a lot I don't get about human nature.
02-06-2020, 12:04 PM
#58
Good grief, has anyone actually claimed it was bulletproof? The claim has been that it is highly reliable and has far few failure modes than the M9X engine series. I've seen nothing to refute this.
The only straight-forward info on the 997.2/9A1 engine is coming from Baz Hart. Baz stated unambiguously that he has seen only five cases total of 997.2 bore scoring and none in the last year. All five we driven hard at start in cold weather. Baz is a virtual clearinghouse on this issue in the UK and the only person putting out facts and figures (as opposed to nebulous references to 9A1 "failures"). In the mean time we continue to hear claims of this tsunami of 997.2 bore scoring coming that is always just around the corner. This despite the fact these engine have been in service for eleven years.
Some people just enjoy worrying it seems. I don't get it as it accomplishes nothing and takes a terrible toll, but there's a lot I don't get about human nature.
The only straight-forward info on the 997.2/9A1 engine is coming from Baz Hart. Baz stated unambiguously that he has seen only five cases total of 997.2 bore scoring and none in the last year. All five we driven hard at start in cold weather. Baz is a virtual clearinghouse on this issue in the UK and the only person putting out facts and figures (as opposed to nebulous references to 9A1 "failures"). In the mean time we continue to hear claims of this tsunami of 997.2 bore scoring coming that is always just around the corner. This despite the fact these engine have been in service for eleven years.
Some people just enjoy worrying it seems. I don't get it as it accomplishes nothing and takes a terrible toll, but there's a lot I don't get about human nature.
02-06-2020, 02:44 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Although I do enjoy reading all the "Girls in the Locker Room" banter regarding 997.1 vs. 997.2, I think those Porsche owners like me who have had many different 356/911/911sc/964/993/996 & 997 models over the past 38 years understand the 997.1 is really no different than the engine related issues of Porsche models from the past. A certain % of cars will fail. That's life in the fast lane.
All the IMS and Bore Scoring drama is really counter productive, lines the pockets of many RL Sponsors and puts fear in unseasoned Porsche owners.
Big deal, certain small % of 996 and 997 cars experience issues - Yawn....
Also anyone with experience like me owning several Mercedes Benz or Land Rover models realize almost every model has some sort of engine or transmission related issue.
If you don't have the fund$ to do a major repair, ride a bike, take Uber, have your wife or mother drive you around or buy a Honda or Toyota.
All the IMS and Bore Scoring drama is really counter productive, lines the pockets of many RL Sponsors and puts fear in unseasoned Porsche owners.
Big deal, certain small % of 996 and 997 cars experience issues - Yawn....
Also anyone with experience like me owning several Mercedes Benz or Land Rover models realize almost every model has some sort of engine or transmission related issue.
If you don't have the fund$ to do a major repair, ride a bike, take Uber, have your wife or mother drive you around or buy a Honda or Toyota.
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f911 (02-07-2020)
