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I'm with James. I actually think the rear look of the NB cars in the 997 generation is prettier and more pure. If you follow the character line from the rear window down over the rear fender, on the NB cars it's a continuously changing curve. The WB cars have more of a flat spot in the middle of the rear fender where they've added the extra inch on each side. I also prefer the way the NB taillight terminates at the edge of the fender visually whereas on the WB cars, there is more fender beyond the end of the light. There are also fewer models available in NB - only the C2, C2S, and GT3 - everything else is WB.
I see what you're saying but still looks fine to me compared to the 991 Turbos. Talking about flat spot on the rear fender. It's like, "let's make it even wider" and they just added whatever width to the rear fenders and it doesn't flow at all. No harmony whatsoever with the rest of the rear portion of the car. Wouldn't turn one down if given to me or offered at a steal price but far from my favorite 911 designs.
As been said, on the 997, the difference is not as obvious as before when the cars aren't side by side. When they are side by side, it is totally obvious.
Drove 2 1/2 hours in freezing rain when I went to get my Targa 4 in Montreal. Even with Michelin Super Sport at half life, at no moment I fealth a loss of control. The car stayed planted and sure footed the whole time as if I was driving on dry pavement in July, while a lot of cars with winter tires were pulled to the side for safety and 18 wheelers driving with their 4ways on.
I am still impressed by that performance. It was the first and last time that this Targa 4 drove in winter conditions through my ownership, but it ain't cause it can't handle it.
I wouldn't want any other model than a 4 or 4S even on a 991. To me, the wider rear-end is a must and after experiencing its capabilities, I wouldn't want any other.
Seriously wasn't it the first reason why we were so attracted and fell in love with the 911 is because of the sexy curvy rear? C4 & C4S are my 1st choice. That's the beauty of the 997, even the narrow body has sexy curves, unlike the 996 yuckie!
Wide body all day. If the dollars were the same, I’m sure 90% would take the wide body. It’s the premium/scarcity that some cannot justify. Maybe a few are 2wd purists. Maintenance/complexity arguments are silly. For me, it had to be a 4s or GTS. The latter I could not swing. It’s all a compromise.
How’d you know the other cars had winter tires on? Also, driving in freezing temps/rain on summer tires is not a good idea. Planted till it’s not.
Originally Posted by Steph1
Drove 2 1/2 hours in freezing rain when I went to get my Targa 4 in Montreal. Even with Michelin Super Sport at half life, at no moment I fealth a loss of control. The car stayed planted and sure footed the whole time as if I was driving on dry pavement in July, while a lot of cars with winter tires were pulled to the side for safety and 18 wheelers driving with their 4ways
How’d you know the other cars had winter tires on? Also, driving in freezing temps/rain on summer tires is not a good idea. Planted till it’s not.
Whats that expression? God favours drunks and fools?
I think surely you jest Steph?? I can see cautiously going on dry pavement but freezing rain?? I have tried just to move my car before on MPSS in 2 cm snow and all 4 wheels basically spin. Now on proper snow tires, its a beast
The 4S adds more weight and complexity. The fewer things to break, the better. These are fairly old $100k cars that are going to need repairs.
Lol, you are obsessed taliking sbout 911 reliability yet you have about 5 seconds of experience with 911s.
Have you owned s C4S? Have you owned s Turbo? Have you ever owned any Porsche AWD? Have you ever driven an AWD on the track? Have you ever had anything break or need repair on an AWD system?
I have had no less than 12 AWD Turbo 911s, most of which were daily driven and I typically personally put anywhere from 30,000 to 80,000 miles on them. Several of them were highly modified with up to 750 hp and many where driven on he track.
Guess what, not a single one of them ever had any drivetrain issues or issues specific to AWD cars. The only issues I can recall is instrument cluster cause tail not to go up and a master or slave cylinder going out. These cars are rock solid.
I actually doubt you personally could feel any weight difference or notice any difference if driving several cars back to back without knowing which was which
Widebody. I needed AWD, but I'd have paid the the premium for a widebody regardless. Same reason I bid on some 80's 911s with M491 package last year. They all look great, just a personal preference.
Lol, you are obsessed taliking sbout 911 reliability yet you have about 5 seconds of experience with 911s.
Have you owned s C4S? Have you owned s Turbo? Have you ever owned any Porsche AWD? Have you ever driven an AWD on the track? Have you ever had anything break or need repair on an AWD system?
I have had no less than 12 AWD Turbo 911s, most of which were daily driven and I typically personally put anywhere from 30,000 to 80,000 miles on them. Several of them were highly modified with up to 750 hp and many where driven on he track.
Guess what, not a single one of them ever had any drivetrain issues or issues specific to AWD cars. The only issues I can recall is instrument cluster cause tail not to go up and a master or slave cylinder going out. These cars are rock solid.
I actually doubt you personally could feel any weight difference or notice any difference if driving several cars back to back without knowing which was which
Same here except no 750hp cars and no track time but about 90,000 miles combined on two 997 C4S's. No issues whatever with the drivetrain on either car.
Pictures attached. Not identical angles so probably not ideal comparisons. The 1.75" difference (I think that's what it is) between the NB and the WB doesn't sound like much but I think it's easy to spot and identify either one on the road even from a distance. Which one looks better will be discussed till most of us are dead.
On a slight side note and just a personal opinion. I think in general, most rear wings take away from the curves of the WB. More so on the WB than on the NB. Non issue except for those of us who like the WB curves.
Yes, a wide body car is certainly more imposing visually in person. Wide body cars do stand out in person and are easy to spot. Porsches should be wide and flat and I have been a fan of the wide bodies since the 930s.
AWD cars are actually a joy to drive, but so are 2 WD. I have both and had many of both throughout the years and I never have once thought I wish this was just a RWD when driving an AWD or was an AWD when driving RWD. Both drive great and handle well. The extra traction is definitely desirable with the turbos and higher hp cars. Hate to say it, but the narrow bodies look kind of weak or lame when you get used to the wide body
Yes, a wide body car is certainly more imposing visually in person. Wide body cars do stand out in person and are easy to spot. Porsche’s should be wide and flat and I have been a fan of the wide bodies since the 930s.
AWD cars are actually a joy to drive, but so are 2 WD. I have both and had many of both throughout the years and I never have once thought I wish this was just a RWD when driving an AWD or was an AWD when driving RWD. Both drive great and handle well. The extra traction is definitely desirable with the turbos and higher ho cars. Hate to say it, but the barrow bodies look kind weak or lamb when you get used to the wide body
Ageee. The AWD feels like a movable suction cup on the road. Takes some work to let the rear lose even on a wet road. Have to say that I have a slight preference for the steering wheel feel on the RWD though. A little lighter and livelier than the AWD. That said, like you I'll take either one but strong preference for the WB models.
If you're just getting into this world, I'd say go with the best value which would be the 2wd in most cases. You don't live in snow and unless you are trying to drive aggressively in downpours, the 2wd will handle the rain fine. Then there are the regular driving dynamics where most would agree that 2wd is preferable.
As for the widebody aspect, you're talking not even 2 inches of difference on a car that's like 70 inches wide. If you can tell the difference without the badge, then I think that's great but otherwise, it's not like an RWB widebody where the looks are significant and allow you to run deep dish wheels or something like that. These cars all have big back ends anyway.
Now if you've got the money to spend on a GTS and can afford driving it and depreciating it, go for it.
IAs for the widebody aspect, you're talking not even 2 inches of difference on a car that's like 70 inches wide. If you can tell the difference without the badge, then I think that's great but otherwise, it's not like an RWB widebody where the looks are significant and allow you to run deep dish wheels or something like that. These cars all have big back ends anyway.
Now if you've got the money to spend on a GTS and can afford driving it and depreciating it, go for it.
I can definitely tell difference in wide body in real life which is crazy given the actual size differenc is not huge. I think market price reflects desireabikity and original MSRP has just about zilch to do with market values in S versus 4S or GTS.
RE: Depreciation
The GTSs are holding value like crazy. A whole lot of them had stickers in the low $120k range and are still priced in the $70k to $80k range 7 to 8 years later. Right now, sales slow due to time of year, but these things redound/strengthen in the spring.
the GTS will hold value long term unless you put crazy miles on it or it gets damaged. The price will still be 50 of sticker which is crazy for a 8 + year old car.
10-31-2019, 03:25 AM
