Originally Posted by rap

I’m always amused by the “ I push my car to the limits” statements. Track your car and push it to its limits.

Originally Posted by Quadcammer

ha, no they dont

Originally Posted by Milo2361

I see the point - we do push our cars to the limit more than 95% of Corolla owners, a possible reason why Toyota's warranty is(slightly) better - 60 mo/60k mi powertrain from a quick google search. so really not even that good.

But isn't a Porsche designed to be pushed to the limit? we all know they're easily capable of running 100k+ hard miles, many of us have done it. but I feel like the 4yr/50k mi is a slight admission of "yeah its probably gonna break because you can only push it for 50k mi, so we don't want to pay for it when it does."

I still think if Porsche claims to be the best, most reliable, etc. (which they do), then they should put their money where their mouth is, destroy any competition and offer a 7/75k or 10 /100k warranty on a 6 figure car. hell, I'd even be more willing to adjust finances tog get into a new one instead of dabbling in the 7-12 year old range, especially since most warranties are transferrable - even used cars would be a bigger draw, because if I bought a 2012 today (7 years old) - most likely wont have any warranty left, or if it does, its the last 2-6 months of the CPO(basically worthless). with a 10 year warranty id have 3 full years left, much more likely to buy.

I read up on the GT3 concerned owners group - now they have a 10 year, 100k on that generation (991.1 I believe) of GT3 engine which is amazing. now if only the prices would drop from the $130k range to the 80k range then I could consider getting one.

Just my opinion - like I said, definitely cant afford new in my current state of affairs - just be nice if they'd truly back up their big talk. I'll always have a Porsche in the garage, best automotive experience I've ever had!

Originally Posted by yvesvidal

Not to pick on what you are saying, but this will never happen. Porsche is building cars to make money! They are currently the most profitable car company with more than 17% of profitability on what they sell. In comparison, Toyota is at 1.5% but the volume is quite different. They also know that the 997.1 will have most of its components failing around 70K miles (the 100,000 kilometers more or less accepted limit used in Europe): clutch, water pump, starter, engine mounts, IMS, Cylinders scoring... etc...etc. Most likely they will reduce the length of their warranty as BMW did recently by moving to 3 years, 36K miles.

Porsche Cars on this forum are probably apparently more reliable, because their owners are doing preemptive maintenance and are **** and enthusiastic about their car. I also believe that quite of few of us do not want to admit publicly (on this forum) that something went wrong with our beloved possession.

Yves

PS: talking about that huge 17% margin, the Porsche CEO was saying recently that it is going to be a lot more difficult to make as much profit with electric cars (Taycan). The reason is that they do not control the major components (electric motors and batteries) like they used to.

Originally Posted by fast1

The primary reason that Porsche doesn't offer the 7 or 10 year warranties that you suggest is that they don't have to. Porsche has no problem selling their cars and they are the most profitable car company in the world. Extended warranties would hurt their bottom line. Car companies that are trying to establish a market niche will offer a generous warranty. For example Hyundai initially offered a 10 year / 100K warranty, but now that they are well established it's been reduced to 5 years / 50K miles.
OTOH a good marketing gimmick would be for Porsche to offer a 6 year / 60K warranty on cars, provided that the owner agrees to have their car serviced at a Porsche dealership in accordance with Porsche's service recommendations. This would make Porsche dealerships very, very happy.

Originally Posted by SpeedyD

Again, everyone is treating Porsche products as one big fungible group of products.

The SUVs make the money, the sports cars make the image.

Brilliant strategy. Without this approach, Porsche would like they did in the 90s, money losing and nearly bankrupt.

Originally Posted by fast1

Porsche makes an average of $17,500 profit on each car sold. So most of that profit is coming from the sale of $60K Macans or $75K Cayennes, and not $125K 991Ss or $180K GT3s or $200K Turbos? Please site your source.

Originally Posted by SpeedyD

Correct.

I won't do all the math work for you but Porsche makes far more Macans, Cayennes and Panameras than all their 911s and premium sports cars combined.

The profit is driven by its mass market offerings being sold at significant premiums.

Note that if it costs Porsche $40K to make a macan and they can sell it at $60K, that is $20K. Make a Cayenne for $50K and sell at $75K? $25K profit! Not quite this simple but you get the point.

Here are some sources:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-up-to-17-250
"Plus, the company's profit spike has coincided with the launch of its most affordable model. Hitting dealerships in 2014, the Macan SUV now accounts for roughly 40 percent of Porsche sales."

Other sources:
https://press.porsche.com/prod/press...sseinformation

Clearly the profit is driven by the Cayennes and Macans. 911s make up less than 15% of all Porsches sold, so of course the profit per vehicle isn't driven by those models.

And if you doubt the Cayenne and Macan would be extremely profitable, just apply logic. They are both shared VW platforms. They tend to be bought highly optioned and that is where a lot of profit comes from. They are also cheaper (relatively speaking) to develop (R&D) because the burden would be shared with VW Group. The 911 and other Porsche sports cars have much lower volumes and have no global platforms to share with today.

I could go on but it is very obvious that yes, the $17K per vehicle profit level is driven primarily by the SUVs and sedans in the Porsche lineup.

Originally Posted by fast1

But the sources you cite do not prove your original assertion: "The SUVs make the money, the sports cars make the image." The implication of your initial post is that 911 sales aren't that profitable. Based on conversations that I've had with Porsche reps at car shows, the 911 and especially GT versions are Porsche's most profitable models. The profit on cars like a GT3 ,GT3RS, GT2, GT2RS and Turbos are far, far higher than the $17,500 average. Even a base 991 exceeds the $17,500 average. My guess is that the profit margin percentage on the 911 lineup is higher than on their SUVs, but unfortunately all I have are conversations and not articles that I can cite. I'd be astounded if Porsche doesn't make at least $40K on every 911 GT model they sell. I do appreciate your point that the non 911 models make up the bulk of Porsche's profits, given the sheer number being sold. But even though 911s make up only 15% of Porsche sales, they are nonetheless a very profitable 15%.

Originally Posted by venom51

Honda is also good about keeping failures under wraps. There was a period where Honda was replacing minivan transmissions without customer knowledge in order to maintain their reputation for reliability. Eventually the recall did happen.

http://www.hondaproblems.com/transmission-failure/

Originally Posted by SpeedyD

Ever drive in Germany?

There is a reason the Germans, who can actually utilize more than 20% of the car's potential daily, see Porsche as the performance pinnacle.